# Is England merry? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 25, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702 "2023-11-25T23:41:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/1 "2023-11-25T23:41:21Z")
Does England live up to its epithet? Did it ever? Your opinions are welcome. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/2 "2023-11-25T23:42:35Z")
Only when it was Olde. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/3 "2023-11-25T23:57:48Z")
England swings, like a pendulum do. The rosy red cheeks of the little children. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/4 "2023-11-26T01:44:35Z")
So the term has always been a short hand for over romanticizing both the English past and the lives of poor workers in rural England. But specifically (in as much as it’s possible to tie it to a particular time period) Merry Olde England refers to the early modern period prior to the reformation and the huge number of festivals, celebrations and traditions celebrated in rural Britain. They were extremely frowned upon by Protestants (particularly puritans) as popish, non biblical and a throw back to pagan ceremonies (which they weren’t as it happens, most of them only dated back to the late medieval period) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/5 "2023-11-26T02:06:42Z")
From Etymology Online: > [@](#): > > Not originally applied to humorous moods or speech or conduct, yet the word had a much wider senses in Middle English than modern: “pleasant-sounding” (of animal voices), “fine” (of weather), “handsome” (of dress), “pleasant-tasting” (of herbs). The evolution of the modern senses is probably via the meaning “pleased by a certain event or situation or state of things” (c. 1200). Of persons, “cheerful by disposition or nature; playfully cheerful, enlivened with gladness or good spirits,” by mid-14c. > > **Merry-bout** “an incident of sexual intercourse” was low slang from 1780. **Merry-begot** “illegitimate” (adj.), also “bastard” (n.) are in Grose (1785). **Merrie England** (now frequently satirical or ironic) is c. 1400, **meri ingland, originally in a broader sense of “bountiful, prosperous.”** **Merry Monday** was a 16c. term for “the Monday before Shrove Tuesday” (Mardi Gras). ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/6 "2023-11-26T11:49:45Z")
Well we English chaps\* are rather reserved. However we do have our merry moments: [They think It’s all over…It is Now! 1966 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg2CXkJVCHk) [1964 Girls Screaming for The Beatles - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYctz_fKf0) [Rugby World Cup 2003 England parade.mov - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppfk-_g76lA) (bus appears at 2.38) [Spurs fans singing “I’m loving big Ange instead” at the stadium - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCG4CbN-jWQ) \*this includes both genders 😉 ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/7 "2023-11-26T12:11:37Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Not originally applied to humorous moods or speech or conduct, yet the word had a much wider senses in Middle English than modern: “pleasant-sounding” (of animal voices), “fine” (of weather), “handsome” (of dress), “pleasant-tasting” (of herbs). The evolution of the modern senses is probably via the meaning “pleased by a certain event or situation or state of things” (c. 1200). Of persons, “cheerful by disposition or nature; playfully cheerful, enlivened with gladness or good spirits,” by mid-14c. > > > > **Merry-bout** “an incident of sexual intercourse” was low slang from 1780. **Merry-begot** “illegitimate” (adj.), also “bastard” (n.) are in Grose (1785). **Merrie England** (now frequently satirical or ironic) is c. 1400, **meri ingland, originally in a broader sense of “bountiful, prosperous.”** **Merry Monday** was a 16c. term for “the Monday before Shrove Tuesday” (Mardi Gras). This explains a lot. > [@griffin1977](#): > > So the term has always been a short hand for over romanticizing both the English past and the lives of poor workers in rural England. But specifically (in as much as it’s possible to tie it to a particular time period) Merry Olde England refers to the early modern period prior to the reformation and the huge number of festivals, celebrations and traditions celebrated in rural Britain. They were extremely frowned upon by Protestants (particularly puritans) as popish, non biblical and a throw back to pagan ceremonies… Also following the Restoration of the Monarchy after Oliver Cromwell died. Charles II was known as the “Merrie Monarch” and his court, and the tone it set, stood in stark contrast to the dour puritannical morals that were pushed on society by Cromwell’s government. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/8 "2023-11-26T13:07:03Z")
I thought merry referred to drinking? There’s often someone holding a mug of ale in old drawings? I have read blogs by Americans that visit Britain. They’ll mention cultural differences that surprise them. Heavily drinking on a night out is mentioned. The US consumes a lot of booze too. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/9 "2023-11-26T23:12:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There’s often someone holding a mug of ale in old drawings That would be “John Bull”, an imaginary figure who is a personification of England, similar to the American ‘Uncle Sam’. He is shown in cartoons and caricatures as a prosperous farmer of the 18th century. The John Bull character was that of a drinking man, hard-headed, down-to-earth, averse to intellectualism, fond of dogs, horses, ale, and country sports. ---
**Author:** ![TwoCarrotSnowman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twocarrotsnowman/32/15879_2.png) [@TwoCarrotSnowman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoCarrotSnowman)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/10 "2023-11-26T23:23:49Z")
Not a lot of merry going on [over in this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rishi-sunak-tries-to-lead-the-uk/973706/537). ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/11 "2023-11-27T00:12:25Z")
Just got back from London today. We had some wonderfully merry conversations with several blokes in the queues, but I fear that alcohol was involved. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/12 "2023-11-30T22:39:25Z")
I find they do giggle a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-england-merry/993702/13 "2023-12-02T22:07:23Z")
They don’t seem to be happy in their work. "When it came to workplace depression statistics, we discovered that: 1. 56% of employees are experiencing symptoms of depression" > **[Depression Statistics UK | 2023 Data | Champion Health](https://championhealth.co.uk/insights/depression-statistics/)** > > Discover the depression statistics in the UK and why employees need to prioritise the mental health of their employees. Read now The U.K. statistics might be skewed however by those dour Scots.