# Is Evergreen State College the canary in the coal mine, foretelling the death of higher education? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914 "2017-06-02T05:53:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/21 "2017-06-02T17:12:06Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > while the roughly-as-frequent right-wing actions (by FIRE’s [count](https://www.thefire.org/resources/disinvitation-database/)) get less coverage. WTF? If I sort your cite by date, 42 of the first 50 are from the left while only 5 are from the right. And for one of the “right” ones the speaker was Jeff Sessions. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/22 "2017-06-02T17:18:03Z")
No more than Westboro baptist church is the canary in the coal mine, foretelling the death of organized religion. The activities of one wacky offshoot doesn’t mean bupkis to the future of a much larger institution that has weathered anything anyone can through at it for hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/23 "2017-06-02T17:30:37Z")
> [@treis](#): > > WTF? > > If I sort your cite by date, 42 of the first 50 are from the left while only 5 are from the right. And for one of the “right” ones the speaker was Jeff Sessions. Not sure what’s WTF about that. My claim is that the database shows rough parity. It does. There have been 77-56 for the successful dis-invitations. Given that the college student population is disproportionately left-wing, this suggests that right-wing college students are about as likely or more likely to disinvite speakers. And to the extent this reflects the larger illiberal tendencies, then there is rough parity. (Also, remember that FIRE is a right-wing organization and this database is based on user submissions, so that might also skew the numbers a bit–which is why I choose that source, just to show that even a relatively right-leaning organization shows this rough parity.) Your suggestion is that in the last year it has becoming a disparately left-wing phenomenon. That does seem to be reflected in FIRE’s numbers, but I don’t think that answers the puzzle, unless you think the media coverage used to be balanced and now it changed. Is that your counter-hypothesis? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/24 "2017-06-02T17:41:40Z")
Fred Rogers? For not being mature enough? I think I will have tremendous difficulty taking any sort of commencement speaker disapproval seriously ever again. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/25 "2017-06-02T17:44:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As an Olympian, I can attest that Evergreen has _always_ been a strange, strange place - even in a town full of hippie liberals, it’s practically its own little enclave. Yes, as a Washingtonian - this sounds like “typical Thursday at Evergreen” just with slightly more press coverage. So, no this isn’t the start of anything. The school has a great reputation. It provides an excellent opportunity for people to learn and to explore. The people I know from there got great educations and many opportunities to learn and direct their focus that they wouldn’t have had at a more traditional college. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/26 "2017-06-02T18:05:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Not sure what’s WTF about that. > > My claim is that the database shows rough parity. It does. There have been 77-56 for the successful dis-invitations. You’re changing your original statement: > [@Richard Parker](#): > > There’s an interesting dynamic happening **right now** in which illiberal left-wing actions on free speech get criticized by the right and the liberal left and get widespread national news coverage, while the roughly-as-frequent right-wing actions (by FIRE’s count) get less coverage. You said that “right now” the “roughly as frequent right-wing actions” are getting less coverage. That’s totally opposite of what your cite shows. Left wing and right wing actions are not roughly equivalent. There has been an explosion of these from the left and they are more violent than anything I can recall from the right. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/27 "2017-06-02T18:10:06Z")
> [@treis](#): > > You said that “right now” the “roughly as frequent right-wing actions” are getting less coverage. That’s totally opposite of what your cite shows. Left wing and right wing actions are not roughly equivalent. Since you won’t answer my question about what you’re trying to argue, I don’t see much point in trying to understand your position. > [@treis](#): > > There has been an explosion of these from the left and they are more violent than anything I can recall from the right. The “I can recall” being the key element there. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/28 "2017-06-02T18:13:59Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Since you won’t answer my question about what you’re trying to argue, I don’t see much point in trying to understand your position. It’s not that difficult. If you need it stated again, it’s that your own cite destroys your argument. > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The “I can recall” being the key element there. Well, by all means share with us the examples of right wing college students rioting over an invited speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/29 "2017-06-02T18:16:42Z")
I’m not gonna try to extend good faith argument to someone who won’t read my posts. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/30 "2017-06-02T18:19:03Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > There’s an interesting dynamic happening right now in which illiberal left-wing actions on free speech get criticized by the right and the liberal left and get widespread national news coverage, while the roughly-as-frequent right-wing actions (by FIRE’s [count](https://www.thefire.org/resources/disinvitation-database/)) get less coverage. > > For example, of those of you familiar with the Evergreen controversy, how many are aware of what’s going on with Prof. Keeanga Yamahtta-Taylor? Fewer, I strongly suspect. My understanding is she’s gotten e-mails threatening her with harm or death. While not diminishing the seriousness of such e-mailed threats, my understanding is that the professor at Evergreen was threatened with harm face to face, by students at arm’s length. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/31 "2017-06-02T18:31:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My understanding is she’s gotten e-mails threatening her with harm or death. > > While not diminishing the seriousness of such e-mailed threats, my understanding is that the professor at Evergreen was threatened with harm face to face, by students at arm’s length. You think this explains the disparity in coverage? That doesn’t quite ring true to me, though I concede that there’s no real way to measure and evaluate such things. Either way, I’m not sure that explains the larger dynamic. My observation is that for the last five years or so the left-wing side of this has been newsier. Do you think that perception of the coverage is wrong? Or do you think I’m wrong about the availability of right-wing illiberalism for similar coverage? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/32 "2017-06-02T18:34:53Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You think this explains the disparity in coverage? That doesn’t quite ring true to me, though I concede that there’s no real way to measure and evaluate such things. > > Either way, I’m not sure that explains the larger dynamic. My observation is that for the last five years or so the left-wing side of this has been newsier. Do you think that perception of the coverage is wrong? Or do you think I’m wrong about the availability of right-wing illiberalism for similar coverage? I think left-wing illiberalism has been nosier and more visual; “Hey hey, ho ho, hateful racists have to go!” works for YouTube clips and quick commentary in a way that the arguably more serious threats that arise from right-wingers do not. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/33 "2017-06-02T19:57:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > While not diminishing the seriousness of such e-mailed threats, my understanding is that the professor at Evergreen was threatened with harm face to face, by students at arm’s length. I didn’t read that. Not saying you’re wrong, but what specific quotes threatened him with harm? (If it’s in a Youtube video, I viscerally despise watching videos of screaming people; if someone’s kind enough to type the money quote, I’d appreciate it). Meanwhile, the cops say there’s a specific threat of mass murder against the leftist teenagers at Evergreen by a caller who, let’s just say probably doesn’t donate to Greenpeace. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/34 "2017-06-02T20:14:32Z")
If we can be perfectly cromulent with such bastards of “higher learning” as Liberty University, with its firm commitment to churning out Bible-bots, why be troubled by the existence of Evergreen U.? Seems to these eyes much like an alternative, if not an antidote. (Perhaps the argument might best be resolved by wholesome intramural sports! Let the leftish colleges and the historically black universities could pick a basketball team to meet with Liberty U. and the like-minded. Best two out of three. Or hacky-sack, I am open to alternatives…) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/35 "2017-06-02T20:17:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I didn’t read that. Not saying you’re wrong, but what specific quotes threatened him with harm? (If it’s in a Youtube video, I viscerally despise watching videos of screaming people; if someone’s kind enough to type the money quote, I’d appreciate it). I remember one comment saying (yelling) he should be physically attacked, another student interjecting that they weren’t about violence, and a third riposting that white people violence was what they were fighting against, and white people violence was the most violent system there is. I could be wrong about which video it was, but [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO1agIlLlhg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO1agIlLlhg) is my best memory. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/36 "2017-06-02T20:35:13Z")
I find it interesting that the professor in question was a biology teacher and I find that in general, professors of the hard sciences are less into the leftist BS and weirdness you see come out of the liberal arts like english, black history, womens studies, philosophy, sex ed, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/37 "2017-06-02T20:37:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If we can be perfectly cromulent with such bastards of “higher learning” as Liberty University, with its firm commitment to churning out Bible-bots, why be troubled by the existence of Evergreen U.? Seems to these eyes much like an alternative, if not an antidote. > > (Perhaps the argument might best be resolved by wholesome intramural sports! Let the leftish colleges and the historically black universities could pick a basketball team to meet with Liberty U. and the like-minded. Best two out of three. Or hacky-sack, I am open to alternatives…) Actually I think would be better, would be to have student exchanges where say a leftist student from Berkeley, take some classes at Liberty and vise versa. Would they find out the other side isnt as bad as they thought? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Sanchez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rick\_Sanchez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/38 "2017-06-02T21:38:43Z")
The kids yelling and screaming at Weinstein are scum and should be punished. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/39 "2017-06-02T21:45:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If we can be perfectly cromulent with such bastards of “higher learning” as Liberty University, with its firm commitment to churning out Bible-bots, why be troubled by the existence of Evergreen U.? Bernie Sanders spoke at Liberty University last year and by all accounts was treated well. Could the same be said if Ted Cruz went to Evergreen? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/40 "2017-06-02T22:55:34Z")
Well, maybe, but Bernie Bedhair is, by most accounts, a pretty decent sort while Ted Cruz is a moldering sack of Randrat rodent droppings. I see no reason to afflict him upon the gentle scholars of Evergreen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914.md?page=3)