# Is Evergreen State College the canary in the coal mine, foretelling the death of higher education? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914 "2017-06-02T05:53:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/41 "2017-06-02T23:18:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Bernie Sanders spoke at Liberty University last year and by all accounts was treated well. Could the same be said if Ted Cruz went to Evergreen? Perhaps not, but the liberals who live near Liberty University aren’t threatening to bring a .44 Magnum to campus and shoot people, either. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/42 "2017-06-03T00:24:33Z")
I’m just glad I got my college education while it was still possible. _ **Whew!!!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/43 "2017-06-03T02:49:09Z")
Channelling my inner Rebecca Bunch, it turns out [the situation is a lot more nuanced than that](http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/article153699764.html) > [@](#): > > Previous to this year, the Day of Absence has involved some students, faculty and staff of color voluntarily gathering off campus for activities related to that cause, while white students, staff and faculty were able to voluntarily participate in related activities on campus. > > This year, Powers says, a request was made to change things up to allow participants of color to hold Day of Absence activities on campus, while white participants who chose to participate were asked to remain off campus. > > “I think that switch was inspired by a desire to affirm the belonging of students, faculty and staff of color,” Powers told me, while noting that, “Participation in the Day of Absence has always been and always will be entirely optional.” > > For perspective, Powers says that about 200 staff, faculty and students — out of roughly 4,800 at Evergreen — left campus to take part in this year’s Day of Absence. So, no: white students weren’t forced off campus. Nonwhite students haven’t been forced off campus in previous years. Rather, folks interested in participating in this day’s events–which, keep in mind, are educational events–were encouraged to switch it up from years past. Now, the reaction to the professor was awful. But I’m no longer irritated at the administration. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/44 "2017-06-03T02:51:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Channelling my inner Rebecca Bunch, it turns out [the situation is a lot more nuanced than that](http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/article153699764.html) > > So, no: white students weren’t forced off campus. Nonwhite students haven’t been forced off campus in previous years. Rather, folks interested in participating in this day’s events–which, keep in mind, are educational events–were encouraged to switch it up from years past. > > Now, the reaction to the professor was awful. But I’m no longer irritated at the administration. Odd that the professor’s desire to opt out of this optional event created such a ruckus. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/45 "2017-06-03T02:59:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I remember one comment saying (yelling) he should be physically attacked, another student interjecting that they weren’t about violence, and a third riposting that white people violence was what they were fighting against, and white people violence was the most violent system there is. > > I could be wrong about which video it was, but [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO1agIlLlhg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO1agIlLlhg) is my best memory. Jeez. I watched that whole damn video, despite hating watching these things. Someone makes the comment about how whiteness is the most violent system to ever fuckin breathe around the :48 mark, but nobody made any comment about yelling he should be attacked. I still think the administration needs to set some ground rules, needs to lay down some serious motherfucking tone policing and be clear that the conversation will not be held in this sort of Public Shaming forum, where when a professor gestures, people start shouting at him about how he needs to have his hands at his side and laughing to mock him until he, humiliated, puts his hands at his side. This is Cultural Revolution bullshit, and the administration needs to stop it. But unless the threat of violence was made elsewhere, I’m not seeing it. Edit: > [@](#): > > Odd that the professor’s desire to opt out of this optional event created such a ruckus. Not especially. I suspect it was his whiny calling of the event “an act of oppression” that got people pissed off. There’s a long and inglorious tradition of white people pretending to be the true victims of racism, and I think a lot of students heard that in his email. Their reaction appears to me to be way over the top, but it doesn’t surprise me that his email pissed people off. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/46 "2017-06-03T04:20:01Z")
Is that a real college or an elaborate parody? ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/47 "2017-06-03T04:31:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Is that a real college or an elaborate parody? It’s both. It’s real, but indistinguishable from parody. See this video: [Common Bread](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx95TmrTn2Q) ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/48 "2017-06-03T06:17:06Z")
You guys are like just on the wrong psychedelics, man. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/49 "2017-06-03T08:03:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Bernie Sanders spoke at Liberty University last year and by all accounts was treated well. Could the same be said if Ted Cruz went to Evergreen? I’d be surprised if Cruz could _find_ anyone at Evergreen that wanted to talk to him. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/50 "2017-06-03T08:56:41Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Actually I think would be better, would be to have student exchanges where say a leftist student from Berkeley, take some classes at Liberty and vise versa. > > Would they find out the other side isnt as bad as they thought? I actually think this is a really cool idea. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/51 "2017-06-03T14:08:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m a Greener Grad… It’s all starting to make sense now. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/52 "2017-06-03T14:51:35Z")
> [@](#): > > So, no: white students weren’t forced off campus. Nonwhite students haven’t been forced off campus in previous years. Rather, folks interested in participating in this day’s events–which, keep in mind, are educational events–were encouraged to switch it up from years past. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I still think the administration needs to set some ground rules, needs to lay down some serious motherfucking tone policing and be clear that the conversation will not be held in this sort of Public Shaming forum, where when a professor gestures, people start shouting at him about how he needs to have his hands at his side and laughing to mock him until he, humiliated, puts his hands at his side. This is Cultural Revolution bullshit, and the administration needs to stop it. > > […] > I suspect it was his whiny calling of the event “an act of oppression” that got people pissed off. There’s a long and inglorious tradition of white people pretending to be the true victims of racism, and I think a lot of students heard that in his email. Their reaction appears to me to be way over the top, but it doesn’t surprise me that his email pissed people off. Collegiate administrations have a tendency to only react to that which may imperil the fundraising, so we’ll have to see how that aspect plays out. But for the kind of person involved in this sort of fracas, “tone policing” is just another example of “privilege” and will only get further adverse reaction. But that’s what happens when everything is looked at through that prism of who is and is not oppressed (more). Yes, the professor’s opposition to an optional event could be taken as a whiny _“but why should we reverse things”_, but his detractors’ reaction, that rather than proving him wrong they’d make an example so nobody ever again dares object, was entirely out of place. Of course, then since a-holes with an internet feed cannot just let this stand when it pops up on their “outrage of the day” feed, the college winds up getting actual death threats phoned in from outside… ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/53 "2017-06-03T16:19:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m a Greener Grad … class of 98. I believe it was the Class of 99 that chose Mumia Abu-Jamal as commencement speaker? Evergreen is … unusual. (BTW, some of the graduates stood and turned their backs during the speech.) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/54 "2017-06-03T16:56:28Z")
I think the students’ behavior is disgusting. But I’m pretty sure this incident would be little more than an “interesting footnote” if it weren’t for the media coverage. Students acting like assholes is not a new phenomenon. What is REALLY changing about society is that our perceptions are shaped by social and online media whose single objective is to drive traffic. That should worry you more than Evergreen. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/55 "2017-06-03T18:06:47Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I believe it was the Class of 99 that chose Mumia Abu-Jamal as commencement speaker? Evergreen is … unusual. (BTW, some of the graduates stood and turned their backs during the speech.) Wasn’t my class. At the time, it was a pretty common belief that Mumia was innocent and framed by a racist police network. I’m pretty unconvinced that that’s true, but that’s because in the intervening years he’s had more opportunities to explain his innocence and he’s instead teased about them. Given the pretty clear evidence that a lot of black men–especially black men who work as political activists–are unfairly targeted by racist police violence, the idea that he was innocent wasn’t absurd. I don’t think you had very many folks who both believed he was guilty and who wanted him as a commencement speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/56 "2017-06-03T23:59:20Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I believe it was the Class of 99 that chose Mumia Abu-Jamal as commencement speaker? Evergreen is … unusual. (BTW, some of the graduates stood and turned their backs during the speech.) Why the heck would any employer want to hire anyone from this school? And that brings up another point. With the rise of social media anyone and everyone will know what happens on any given college campus. Thing is - ALL STUDENTS are affected. So it is in the interest of the students themselves to put a stop to this crap to not make the reputation of the college any worse. Its part of the reason the University of Colorado stopped its annual smoking pot event. This also makes a point of asking why dont we see such crap at engineering schools? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/57 "2017-06-04T00:00:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m just glad I got my college education while it was still possible. _ **Whew!!!** _ But again, you dont see this kind of crap at engineering schools. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/58 "2017-06-04T01:05:02Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Why the heck would any employer want to hire anyone from this school? Well, if you were looking to create an animated TV series back in the late-'80s, it might have worked out okay. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/59 "2017-06-04T02:17:17Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Why the heck would any employer want to hire anyone from this school? :dubious: Because it’s possible to get a kickass education there. It’s typically [ranked fairly high by US New and World report](https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/evergreen-state-college-8155)–not like in the top rating for schools nationally, but in the western region it’s: > [@](#): > > #4 in Best Undergraduate Teaching > #1 in Most Innovative Schools > #5 in Top Public Schools and, what’ll probably surprise you, > [@](#): > > #17 in Best Colleges for Veterans If you’re actually interested in how to get a kickass education there, and why it’s ranked so highly, I’m happy to expand; but if you just want to shake your head at them damn hippies, you keep on keeping on. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/60 "2017-06-04T02:21:35Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Why the heck would any employer want to hire anyone from this school? > > And that brings up another point. With the rise of social media anyone and everyone will know what happens on any given college campus. Thing is - ALL STUDENTS are affected. So it is in the interest of the students themselves to put a stop to this crap to not make the reputation of the college any worse. Its part of the reason the University of Colorado stopped its annual smoking pot event. > > This also makes a point of asking why dont we see such crap at engineering schools? A. Engineering school requires work. B. Engineering school attracts sensible people. C. Engineering grads want a job doing something constructive. I don’t have any idea what \_\_\_\_\_\_ studies people expect to do in life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914.md?page=4)