# Is Evergreen State College the canary in the coal mine, foretelling the death of higher education? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914 "2017-06-02T05:53:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/101 "2017-06-06T15:46:44Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > My only “partisan motivations” are my support for liberal values and the free exchange of ideas in a civilized society. _Over 50 faculty_ signed that misguided statement that I posted above, and are pandering to this deranged mob of out-of-control students who seek to silence anyone with a dissenting opinion. And that’s no exaggeration, nor does it depend upon hearsay - there is ample direct evidence of their behavior on video. It doesn’t seem to me that only a tiny minority of the community at this college have lost their way. Where did these students learn to be so hyperbolic?! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/102 "2017-06-06T15:57:49Z")
> [@](#): > > …All of the statements from the administration seem to be pandering to the “demands” of students who formed a mob to indimidate a professor who did nothing but express mild dissent to their views in an email. Did anyone lose his health insurance? Anyone in the services get their father deported? Anyone’s grandmother lose the food support and human contact of Meals on Wheels? Did any of these students get rich selling bogus securities to pension funds? Faculty? Any of the faculty take part in legal maneuvers to ensure that the Republican Party clings to power by making it harder for people to vote? Any of them support the most incompetent and immoral shitstain President evah? No? They took part in a stupid exercise? That’s it? Well, fuck, that’s not good. But that’s it? Get back to me when you’re serious. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/103 "2017-06-06T16:20:25Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The official statement specifically addresses student conduct, the reading of it as hostile toward Weinstein seems disingenuous to me. As I reread it, maybe I’m wrong. I hope so. Taken at face value, it’s open to interpretation. I was interpreting it in the context of the pathetic way Bridges has pandered to these students, letting them humiliate and bully him. But maybe the Board are taking a different line. If they are, the problem with the statement is that you can’t just apply common sense in interpreting what statements mean when the doublethink of the po-mo academic radical left is involved. Any reasonable person might think it’s perfectly clear what they mean in the context of recent events, but in fact these comments are ambiguous: > [@](#): > > …the lack of tolerance and respect displayed by a few during these recent events… > [@](#): > > …Anyone who prevents Evergreen from delivering a positive and productive learning environment for all students… In the doublethink of these students, and a large number of faculty, it was _Weinstein_ showing lack of tolerance and respect in calmly expressing an opinion in an email; it was _Weinstein_ compromising the learning environment by violating their “safe space”. In their eyes, _Weinstein_ is the oppressive bully and they are the petrified victims. If the Board really are on the right side of this, I think they need to be completely explicit that they are criticizing the actions of the _students_ in their attempts to suppress the free exchange of ideas through mob intimidation. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/104 "2017-06-06T17:11:23Z")
Did the students offer to pay the legal costs if anyone physically assaulted Weinstein? Led a chant of “lock him up!”? Teach your children well. I did. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/105 "2017-06-06T17:12:44Z")
I’m going to offer a hot take: NO ONE who pays 50,000 a year to attend college is anywhere near oppressed. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/106 "2017-06-06T18:16:46Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > “Death of higher ed” is hyperventilating, but I agree with the professor’s every word – calling for the exclusion of “white” people from campus for a day isn’t helpful for any cause (it may have been in the days of true segregation, but not now) – and the students threatening the professor for stating this are simply despicable. Yeah, I agree. Stupid, idiotic behavior! I hope that they grow out of this nutty mindset before they graduate and need jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/107 "2017-06-06T20:21:27Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I’m going to offer a hot take: NO ONE who pays 50,000 a year to attend college is anywhere near oppressed. In-state tuition is $6,500 annually; out-of-state is $24,000 annually; there’s ample financial aid available as well as lots of work-study. One of my best friends freshman year was a girl from a reservation in Oregon (I don’t remember the tribe, I just remember her disgust at people drinking spirulina, since it grew on the lakes on the reservation). She’d grown up in poverty and was there on scholarship. So, yeah, cool hot take, bro. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/108 "2017-06-06T22:05:05Z")
Well, sure, but that figure doesn’t take into account drug expenses, and medical treatment for STDs and hacky-sack injuries! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/109 "2017-06-06T22:08:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, sure, but that figure doesn’t take into account **drug expenses, and medical treatment for STDs and tacky-sack injuries**! Ooooh, are we debating those things now? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/110 "2017-06-06T22:33:45Z")
Blackguard, you have altered my quote! Please advise what hour of the morning would be convenient for my footman to deliver your thrashing. Your Humble, etc. **elucidator,** Duke of URL ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/111 "2017-06-06T23:14:02Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > As I reread it, maybe I’m wrong. I hope so. Taken at face value, it’s open to interpretation. This was my reading… > [@](#): > > We are deeply committed to ensuring that Evergreen provides a civil, safe campus environment for all. During the last week, the conduct of a small percentage of Evergreen’s community members exhibited unacceptable behavior that is completely contrary to Evergreen’s values. \*\*Although almost all of students continued to attend classes and receive the extraordinary education that Evergreen delivers, the lack of tolerance and respect displayed by a few during these recent events and disruptions is indefensible. > \*\* Bolding/underlining mine. I think it’s pretty evident that ‘‘a few’’ refers to ‘‘a few students.’’ Yes, they could have been more explicit. [QUOTE=Riemann] If they are, the problem with the statement is that you can’t just apply common sense in interpreting what statements mean when the doublethink of the po-mo academic radical left is involved. [/QUOTE] ‘‘Po-mo’’? That’s a new one for me. Just curious, have you ever spent time with the radical academic left? Because that was a pretty significant portion of my life/identity for a long time. I dunno how you define ‘‘radical,’’ but I might still qualify from a policy perspective. I think you are mischaracterizing the many based on the actions of a few. [QUOTE=Dale Sams] I’m going to offer a hot take: NO ONE who pays 50,000 a year to attend college is anywhere near oppressed. [/QUOTE] You should probably check your assumptions there. I attended U of M on scholarship, for being poor and smart. At the time it was the most expensive public university in the country. Columbia and a number of other private institutions have made it a policy to offer tuition free of charge for students with a household income under a certain threshold. There will always be legacies and rich entitled assholes and there will always be kids like me who can’t relate to any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/112 "2017-06-06T23:44:24Z")
So what is going to happen is the college will fire the professor and suck up to the stupid behavior of the students which will result in even MORE stupid behavior. Why do college administrations always put up with this crap from students? They should have disciplined every student who was acting like an asshole and moved on. I HOPE the media stays on this and the weirdness which is Evergreen college and makes them look like the fools they are. Similar to how the idiots at Duke handled the lacrosse case and the University of Missouri idiots handled the Black Lives Matter mess. I know UM had a major drop in enrollment after their mess. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/113 "2017-06-06T23:47:36Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > And what do you make of this? Signed by around 50 faculty members. > > [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zwPLnekTcjlmwO\_0IyS7qF33sa40ufi2zAMEP-MU3IE/mobilebasic](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zwPLnekTcjlmwO_0IyS7qF33sa40ufi2zAMEP-MU3IE/mobilebasic) > > Some excerpts, my bold: The link has been taken down. Curious. Were most of the professors in liberal arts? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/114 "2017-06-07T00:14:22Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I HOPE the media stays on this and the weirdness which is Evergreen college and makes them look like the fools they are. Do you hope that the media starts covering this in a nuanced, reasonable way, or are you happy for the rightwing media to continue to be as unreasonable and unfair and fundamentally dishonest as the worst of those students are being? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/115 "2017-06-07T00:22:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In-state tuition is $6,500 annually; out-of-state is $24,000 annually; there’s ample financial aid available as well as lots of work-study. One of my best friends freshman year was a girl from a reservation in Oregon (I don’t remember the tribe, I just remember her disgust at people drinking spirulina, since it grew on the lakes on the reservation). She’d grown up in poverty and was there on scholarship. > > So, yeah, cool hot take, bro. So…it wasn’t $50,000? Right? ok. and no it’s not cool. It’s hot. A hot take. edit: Oh i see. You thought i meant Evergreen. My bad. That’s perfectly understandable. Given that’s the school being discussed. That’s all on me. I apologize…but i did admit its a hot take. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/116 "2017-06-07T12:53:17Z")
One silver lining to this kerfuffle - it may supplant Evergreen’s main association (in the minds of people of a certain age) with [the Donna Manson disappearance/murder](http://web.kitsapsun.com/archive/1998/01-26/0003_donna_manson__lost_skeleton_could.html). I read an op-ed by the professor at the center of this controversy - outraged by the threats and being forced to teach off-campus, and also somewhat rambling (making odd connections with tensions between hard and social sciences). The response (a letter to the Wall St. Journal) by the school’s President was entirely to refute the idea that Evergreen was tolerant of racial exclusion, but he didn’t have a word to say about threats against the prof. Odd. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/117 "2017-06-07T15:33:16Z")
> [@](#): > > …We acknowledge students’ right to protest, and affirm President Bridges’ recent decision not to use the misguided language of the current Student Conduct Code to punish the protestors. It would be interesting to hear which language in the Student Conduct Code these faculty members consider to be misguided. I haven’t been able to find an easily readable version of the Student Conduct Code online - maybe there’s something in there about respect for differing points of view, or a reference to “diversity” that means something other than skin color or gender. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/118 "2017-06-07T15:37:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It would be interesting to hear which language in the Student Conduct Code these faculty members consider to be misguided. > > I haven’t been able to find an easily readable version of the Student Conduct Code online - maybe there’s something in there about respect for differing points of view, or a reference to “diversity” that means something other than skin color or gender. > > Regards, > Shodan [Student code of conduct](http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?dispo=true&cite=174), linked from TESC’s student affairs website. Edit: well, crap, that’s a terrible link. Lemme keep digging. Edit 2: [Here’s the social contract](http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=174-121-010), which I believe is part of the student code of conduct. A relevant section: > [@](#): > > Evergreen can thrive only if members respect the rights of others while enjoying their own rights. Students, faculty, administrators, and staff members may differ widely in their specific interests, in the degree and kinds of experiences they bring to Evergreen, and in the functions which they have agreed to perform. All must share alike in prizing academic and interpersonal honesty, in responsibly obtaining and in providing full and accurate information, and in resolving their differences through due process and with a strong will to collaboration. > … > Freedom and civility: The individual members of the Evergreen community are responsible for protecting each other and visitors on campus from physical harm, from personal threats, and from uncivil abuse. Civility is not just a word; it must be present in all our interactions. Similarly, the institution is obligated, both by principle and by the general law, to protect its property from damage and unauthorized use and its operating processes from interruption. Members of the community must exercise the rights accorded them to voice their opinions with respect to basic matters of policy and other issues. The Evergreen community will support the right of its members, individually or in groups, to express ideas, judgments, and opinions in speech or writing. The members of the community, however, are obligated to make statements in their own names and not as expressions on behalf of the college. The board of trustees or the president speaks on behalf of the college and may at times share or delegate the responsibility to others within the college. Among the basic rights of individuals are freedom of speech, freedom of peaceful assembly and association, freedom of belief, and freedom from intimidation, violence, and abuse. > … > In the Evergreen community, individuals should not feel intimidated or be subject to reprisal for voicing their concerns or for participating in governance or policy making. It seems very clear to me that some small minority of students, not the professor, were violating this section of the social contract, and should be sanctioned accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/119 "2017-06-07T16:15:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It seems very clear to me that some small minority of students, not the professor, were violating this section of the social contract, and should be sanctioned accordingly. The letter from the faculty members mentions that they agree with the decision of Bridges not to sanction them. So apparently the president of the college disagrees with you, and agrees with the 50 faculty members. And since > [@](#): > > The board of trustees or the president speaks on behalf of the college and may at times share or delegate the responsibility to others within the college. it would seem that Bridges has made the official decision. Maybe the parts you quoted are the parts the faculty members think is misguided. So > [@](#): > > The individual members of the Evergreen community are responsible for protecting each other and visitors on campus from physical harm, from personal threats, and from uncivil abuse. Civility is not just a word; it must be present in all our interactions. and > [@](#): > > In the Evergreen community, individuals should not feel intimidated or be subject to reprisal for voicing their concerns or for participating in governance or policy making. need to be amended. Just add “except if they disagree” and thus make everything clear. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/120 "2017-06-07T18:02:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It seems very clear to me that some small minority of students, not the professor, were violating this section of the social contract, and should be sanctioned accordingly. If by “sanctioned” you mean "sprayed with firehoses pumping out 20 psi of icy cold water until the ‘some small minority’ of punks started to understand the twin concepts of “being housebroken” and “playing well with others” sinks in, then we have commonality of ground. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914.md?page=7)