# Is EVP for real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 4, 2006, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370 "2006-01-04T07:16:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/1 "2006-01-04T07:16:51Z")
I recently watched an interesting move called _White Noise_, where an architect attempts to contact his deceased wife via something called EVP or “Electronic Voice Phenomena”. I did a quick search in Wikipedia and found [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voice_phenomena) interesting article on it. My question is, how much of this stuff is a hoax? It seems to me that if contacting the dead were as easy as listening to a white noise playback, everyone would be communicating with their late Aunt Esther. And while I haven’t listened to the sound files of George W. Meek and William J. O’Neil’s supposed “discussions” with their Spiricom device, I find that just as the Wikipedia article states, much the receptions are subject to interpretation. (In fairness, Meek and O’Neil weren’t accosted by ghosts as Michael Keaton was in the movie.) I still feel, however, that this would be really cool if it’s true. Any idea on how real this is? Thanks, Adam ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/2 "2006-01-04T07:45:24Z")
I’m not sure if it’s real, but even thinking about that shit gives me the heebi-jeebies like noone’s business. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/3 "2006-01-04T07:49:44Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > I’m not sure if it’s real, but even thinking about that shit gives me the heebi-jeebies like noone’s business. 😛 Creepy, huh? Is this the first time you’ve heard of it? Adam ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/4 "2006-01-04T07:49:54Z")
> [@Wikipedia](#): > > “The voice entities speak very rapidly, in a mixture of languages, sometimes as many as five or six in one sentence.” This sems to me (and the Wiki article backs me up a few lines later) more like random noises that sound like words in _some_ language ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/5 "2006-01-04T08:12:05Z")
One can, if one is looking hard enough, find faces in clouds and symbols in tea leaves. These researchers have gone into this work with a preconceived notion that these voices existed. This has caused them to spend considerable time and effort refining equipment so that it produced random vaguely voice like sounds. Due to their preconceived ideas, they have rejected any equipment that did not produce such sounds as simply not properly receiving voices from the dead. They have then strained to find meaning in some sound they have recorded. The only weird thing would be if they _failed_ to find anything that could be heard as voices, particularly when under their rules you are allowed to scrape together sentences by stringing together noises that resemble words from “five or six” different languages. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/6 "2006-01-04T08:21:10Z")
I’d also be surprised if they didn’t hear any voices on a radio “not tuned to any station”. God knows, radio stations never bleed onto nearby freqs. Although I suppose noone would find credible a voice that said “This is Casey Kasem. Time for the countdown!” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/7 "2006-01-04T08:27:24Z")
When I was a child, I used to amuse myself on long car journeys by hearing music in the road noise; I could pick out pretty much any tune I wanted, think about it and I would start to hear it, faintly at first, then more clearly, in the background rumble/buzz/hiss that the car made as the tyres rolled across the road surface at speed. I was all the time conscious that the music wasn’t really there, but the perception of it seemed real in every sense. I suggest that EVP is similar (though not deliberate); take a source of noise and human perception can morph it into any number of fantastical things, like the shapes in clouds mentioned by **Princhester**. There’s also a guy out there who claims that _pretty much every spoken phrase_, when played backwards, contains another audible phrase revealing the true mind of the speaker; this (and much of the original fuss over backmasking in the music industry) is (IMO) just another case of pattern-finding where there is no actual pattern to be found. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/8 "2006-01-04T09:24:31Z")
What’s interesting about EVP and ITC is that they represent completely opposite poles of the same phenomenon. Whereas one trying to collect EVP samples will be contented with short, scratchy, barely-audible phrases or words or even sounds, the ITC folks claim to hold long, coherent, interactive conversations with the other side. EVPs are only heard via recordings; ITC is real-time. EVPs seem to occur more frequently on specific recording devices (particularly one infamous Panasonic model digital _ **voice** _ recorder); ITC equipment is often built from scratch. So when you listen to samples of EVP, it’s easy to see how they might–nearly all of them–be audio artifacts misindentified as voices. We can all hear voices if we listen hard enough. But then listen to the Spiricom recordings, and you clearly hear a human voice coming out of the background noise–not loud and clear, but easily understood–and the voice is responding to questions asked by the machine’s operators. It’s either a hoax or it’s for real–there’s no middle ground with ITC. There’s a series of recordings of Konstantin Raudive’s “spirit voice” where you can clearly hear breathing inbetween the speech (prompting the issue: do dead people breathe?). Without replication under controlled conditions, of course, there’s no proof either way. Almost universally, even the ITC researchers who report the most contacts admit that the vast majority of attempts are failures (EVP, apparently, is quite commonplace). There are some who claim to have captured images via television setups (I know, I know…images…on a tele! who knew?) that are obvious fakes. So the temptation is to assume the same about the lot of EVP/ITC researchers. But it’s more fun around here to assume it’s real. The theory, it goes, is that EVP are manifestations of what ghost-hunters call residual hauntings–scenes from the past whose energy echoes through time, like a tape playing over and over again. ITC, on the other hand, is the spirit in real-time. Spirits, you see, they vibrate on a higher level than we incarnate humans, and while they can see and hear us, they are inaudible and invisible from our perspective. Like the movie _Ghost_, where it takes him an enormous effort to effect the slightest physical action–the ITC contacts claim it takes a lot to get our attention. The prize, though, has to go to the Spiricom for sheer…ingenuity. You’ve gotta love this thing. A series of tones is broadcast via radio to a receiver a short distance away hooked up to speakers. The idea is that the spirit can more easily manipulate the radio waves than it could audible sound waves, so it gives the spirit a carrier signal over which it might be heard. And it works like a charm, apparently–the only problem is finding a spirit. That, it seems, can take years. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/9 "2006-01-04T10:05:06Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > Spirits, you see, they vibrate on a higher level than we incarnate humans. I know what vibrate means. I known what higher level means. I have no idea what you mean by this sentence though. Do you mean that we humans shake (ie vibrate) and that spirits shake at a higher frequency? Or that they shake with a bigger amplitude? Or that they do it whilst standing on a box? Or what? Exactly? And how do you know? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/10 "2006-01-04T10:12:46Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > There’s also a guy out there who claims that _pretty much every spoken phrase_, when played backwards, contains another audible phrase revealing the true mind of the speaker; this (and much of the original fuss over backmasking in the music industry) is (IMO) just another case of pattern-finding where there is no actual pattern to be found. I am proud of our Aussie dingbat and [Reverse Speech](http://www.reversespeech.com/music_reversals.htm) although the site does provide lots of examples of exactly what you are talking about. Fun listening. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/11 "2006-01-04T10:35:00Z")
What’s particularly amusing about the reverse speech guy is how incoherent or irrelevant are the phrases he claims to hear; a Frank Zappa song contains the phrase “There’s no-one except the sheik that remembered we had the mumps”. WOW!; Queen’s _We Will Rock You_ contains the hidden message “Bring us here to put on ash”. oooOOoo spooky! ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/12 "2006-01-04T10:58:20Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I know what vibrate means. I known what higher level means. I have no idea what you mean by this sentence though. Do you mean that we humans shake (ie vibrate) and that spirits shake at a higher frequency? Or that they shake with a bigger amplitude? Or that they do it whilst standing on a box? Or what? Exactly? And how do you know? I direct you to [this book](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446671002/qid=1136372226/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8656234-4772062?n=507846&s=books&v=glance) . I think this is what was meant by vibrate to a higher level. I’m not sure of any other way to explain it without quoting verbatim from the book, which I think is against the board rules. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/13 "2006-01-04T11:10:17Z")
‘Vibration’ is a popular buzzword in pseudoscientific nuttery, but I think what people generally mean when they talk about things ‘vibrating at a higher level’ is something (perhaps surprisingly) a bit like string theory; matter isn’t ‘stuff’, it’s just little twangs on some fundamental _aether_; twang a different note and you get something every bit as ‘real’ (or every bit as unreal) as matter, but unable (or only weakly able) to interact with the twangs that make _our kind of matter_. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/14 "2006-01-04T11:43:22Z")
The brain tends to find patterns even when none exists. This is well proven when it comes to our visual sence and I suspect that this phenomenon is the auditory equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/15 "2006-01-04T12:23:42Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > ‘Vibration’ is a popular buzzword in pseudoscientific nuttery, but I think what people generally mean when they talk about things ‘vibrating at a higher level’ is something (perhaps surprisingly) a bit like string theory… As string theory gradually enters the common vernacular, I’ve no doubt it’ll be used as the basis for all _kinds_ of kookery. And maybe at least one TV series (_CSI: Los Alamos_?) where advanced physics is gleefully mangled to solve crimes. I bet electricity had a similar effect, when it started to become familiar to the general public. ---
**Author:** ![Robert\_Emmett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b487fb/32.png) [@Robert\_Emmett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert_Emmett)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/16 "2006-01-04T12:32:55Z")
As Princhester and SaintCad said, the human mind is famous for finding patterns where none exist, or where there is some sort of design which the mind places into convenient designs. Sometimes they just ‘unintentionally fabricate’ something by rejecting what they don’t want to see and tweaking it into they produce something they like. Take the face of Mary on the cheese sandwich. Chances are, it was some random burn mark that people changed into the face of Mary. There have been innumerable accounts of this throughout history. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/17 "2006-01-04T12:59:44Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I bet electricity had a similar effect, when it started to become familiar to the general public. Too true; the same with magnetism and radioactivity; it isn’t all that long ago when people were excitedly talking about ‘atomic’ household appliances - it’s the old advanced science=magic thing. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/18 "2006-01-04T15:36:22Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > The brain tends to find patterns even when none exists. This is well proven when it comes to our visual sence and I suspect that this phenomenon is the auditory equivalent. Part of it is exactly due to this. The human brain is the greatest pattern matching device in the known universe. It is far, far, far better than even the most powerful supercomputer at picking out patterns. It’s so good at picking out patterns that sometimes it makes patterns out of nonsense. The other thing that factors into this is that the first thing they teach you in engineering school is how easy it is to make an AM radio receiver. All you need is an antenna, which can be any old bit of wire or piece of metal, something that conducts better in one direction than another, and something that acts as a filter. This basically describes just about every circuit in existance. One of the greatest difficulties in designing things is making sure that your circuit does NOT act like an AM radio receiver. The effect gets even worse if you add a really high gain amplifier into the circuit, like, say, the recording or playback amplifier in a cassette recorder. Ever notice that tape recorders are a favored device among the EVP folks? You gotta wonder how many of those “ghosts” are actually snippets of some guy’s voice who is yacking away on his short wave radio a couple of hundred miles away. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/19 "2006-01-04T15:59:53Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > What’s particularly amusing about the reverse speech guy is how incoherent or irrelevant are the phrases he claims to hear; a Frank Zappa song contains the phrase “There’s no-one except the sheik that remembered we had the mumps”. WOW!; Queen’s _We Will Rock You_ contains the hidden message “Bring us here to put on ash”. oooOOoo spooky! Yeah, and a Steely Dan song has the hidden message, “I detect the El Supremo from the room at the top of the stairs.” Oh, wait, that’s when you play it forwards. . . . ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370/20 "2006-01-05T22:21:34Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > What’s particularly amusing about the reverse speech guy is how incoherent or irrelevant are the phrases he claims to hear; a Frank Zappa song contains the phrase “There’s no-one except the sheik that remembered we had the mumps”. WOW!; Queen’s _We Will Rock You_ contains the hidden message “Bring us here to put on ash”. oooOOoo spooky! **Peter:** “Look, Brian, there’s a message in my Alpha-Bits! It says ‘oooOOoo’.” **Brian:** “Peter, those are Cheerios.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evp-for-real/338370.md?page=2)