# Is "fagela" real Yiddish? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 1, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503 "2016-12-01T00:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/1 "2016-12-01T00:15:00Z")
Fagela is a term used by some northeastern Jews meaning fag or faggot - i.e. a slur for a gay person. But is it an actual Yiddish word or a Yidlish[sup]1[/sup] backformation from faggot? [sub]1. Pretty sure I just invented that.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/2 "2016-12-01T01:02:33Z")
It’s _faygeleh_ or _feygeleh_. It’s real Yiddish and it has nothing to do with _faggot_. It’s etymologically related to Yiddish _foigel_/German _Vogel_ and literally means something like birdie, little bird. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/3 "2016-12-01T01:18:38Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > SNIP > . . . a Yidlish[sup]1[/sup] backformation from faggot? > > [sub]1. Pretty sure I just invented that.[/sub] Well, 715 hits on Google, so you didn’t invent it, but you did your bit to popularize it! 😉 ETA, and another 609 for Yiddlish. So your first job is going to be to standardize the spelling ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/4 "2016-12-01T01:54:47Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > It’s _faygeleh_ or _feygeleh_. It’s real Yiddish and it has nothing to do with _faggot_. It’s etymologically related to Yiddish _foigel_/German _Vogel_ and literally means something like birdie, little bird. Call someone who speaks spanish a _pajaro_ (parrot/bird). Same idea. ETA: “Yinglish” is the word OP’s looking for ([Wiki entry)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinglish), but I like yours too. Although it’s not Yinglish, it’s straight-up Yiddish. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/5 "2016-12-01T02:37:04Z")
My parents had a parakeet named Feygeleh, totally unaware of its other meaning until I enlightened them. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/6 "2016-12-01T02:38:01Z")
[An earlier question](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=319232) that has some responses with the bird/homosexual connection. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/7 "2016-12-01T03:34:39Z")
Leo Rosten wrote “The Joys of Yiddish” in 1968. It is a dictionary of Yiddish words. The definition of faygeleh is: 1. little bird 2. a girls name 3. a dear little, sweet little,tiny, helpless, innocent child. caution: use faygeleh for a little girl, not for a little boy, because faygeleh also means: 4. Homosexual. Quite common (the word, not the libidinal arrangement) in the American-Jewish vernacular. A synonym for the English “fairy” or “fag”. Jews use faygeleh as a discreet way of describing a homosexual - especially where they might be overheard. So - yes, faygeleh has been in use as a term for male homosexual for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/8 "2016-12-01T04:33:47Z")
I recall one of my grandmas talking about how she could always spot a faygeleh because they were so obvious. She didn’t spot me, though. She might have spotted her son. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/9 "2016-12-01T05:06:47Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Fagela is a term used by some northeastern Jews meaning fag or faggot - i.e. a slur for a gay person. Others have corrected your spelling and basically replied but it really isn’t a slur as I’ve heard it used; just a way of saying gay person. What Yiddish I know I learned from working in the lodges during the glory days of the Poconos and I’m far from fluent but I believe there is another expression that could be used if one had the intentions of denigrating the individual. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/10 "2016-12-01T05:31:34Z")
The “eleh” is a diminutive or affectionate diminutive ending in Yiddish. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/11 "2016-12-01T11:34:31Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > The “eleh” is a diminutive or affectionate diminutive ending in Yiddish. Cognate with “-lein” in High German, so “Vögelein”= “Feigele” ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/12 "2016-12-01T15:15:33Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > It’s _faygeleh_ or _feygeleh_. It’s real Yiddish and it has nothing to do with _faggot_. It’s etymologically related to Yiddish _foigel_/German _Vogel_ and literally means something like birdie, little bird. ISTM that this leaves the question still open. Even if faygeleh is a genuine Yiddish word, the original meaning has nothing to do with homosexuality, as you observe. So the question is whether the connotation of homosexuality is derived from the similarity to the English faggot or whether it arose independently. Question then is whether this meaning exists in non-English speaking countries. Based on the cite from Rosten in post #7, it would seem that it does not. Which would suggest that it is indeed derived from faggot. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/13 "2016-12-01T15:37:25Z")
Rosten is pretty _shwach_ oftentimes for scholarship. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/14 "2016-12-01T15:38:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > ISTM that this leaves the question still open. Even if faygeleh is a genuine Yiddish word, the original meaning has nothing to do with homosexuality, as you observe. So the question is whether the connotation of homosexuality is derived from the similarity to the English faggot or whether it arose independently. > > Question then is whether this meaning exists in non-English speaking countries. Based on the cite from Rosten in post #7, it would seem that it does not. Which would suggest that it is indeed derived from faggot. Based on a cite from **Leo Bloom** in post #4, it would seem that it does. [Quote=Leo Bloom] Call someone who speaks spanish a pajaro (parrot/bird). Same idea. [/quote] I have no idea why you insist on making the English slang usage the root of this. It’s a false friend. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/15 "2016-12-01T15:50:21Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > …I have no idea why you insist on making the English slang usage the root of this. It’s a false friend. Aaah, now I see your point. Sorry. Will give this some thought. It’s an interesting linguistics phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/16 "2016-12-01T16:10:02Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Aaah, now I see your point. Sorry. > > Will give this some thought. It’s an interesting linguistics phenomenon. No, **Leo** , you don’t have anything to apologize for. At least, not in this topic. 😃 You provided a counter-citation that **Fotheringay-Phipps** overlooked (the use of “bird” as codename for “homosexual” in a language completely unrelated to Yiddish.) “Faggot” and “faygeleh” are false cognates; they’re etymologically unrelated in spite of the similarity of their sounds. (And I used “false friend” earlier when I meant “false cognate”. So _mea culpa_ there.) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/17 "2016-12-01T16:41:11Z")
FWIW, “faggot” in English does have other uses, e.g., a bundle of sticks,/ for firewood or on a besom, and in some parts of England a meatball. In England it’s traditionally a pejorative word for a fussy/cantankerous/nosy old woman (possibly implying a witch?), which may be how it switched over to meaning a homosexual, though that seems to have happened in the USA, and relatively recently. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/18 "2016-12-02T00:54:32Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > “Faggot” and “faygeleh” are false cognates; they’re etymologically unrelated in spite of the similarity of their sounds. (And I used “false friend” earlier when I meant “false cognate”. So _mea culpa_ there.) Plus, the sounds are not even that similar. The two words share an ‘f’ and a ‘g’, but that’s about it. Unless Americans are pronouncing “faggot” in a way that would surprise me greatly, the vowels are completely different. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/19 "2016-12-02T01:01:40Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > FWIW, “faggot” in English does have other uses, e.g., a bundle of sticks,/ for firewood or on a besom, and in some parts of England a meatball. In England it’s traditionally a pejorative word for a fussy/cantankerous/nosy old woman (possibly implying a witch?), which may be how it switched over to meaning a homosexual, though that seems to have happened in the USA, and relatively recently. You could always read a staff article by me [How did “faggot” get to mean “male homosexual”?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2112/how-did-faggot-get-to-mean-male-homosexual) The term faggot as a male homosexual goes back to 1914 in print in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503/20 "2016-12-02T01:45:42Z")
The thing about “faygele” is that it only has the meaning of “homosexual” in American Yiddish, and it first shows up after “faggot” and “fag”. So while faygele is an actual Yiddish word, the use of it as a slur could be derived from “fag”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fagela-real-yiddish/773503.md?page=2)