# Is "famous for being famous" strictly an American phenomenon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873 "2015-10-27T14:10:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/21 "2015-10-27T19:45:01Z")
ISTR that sometime in the late 90s/early 2000s, there was a sort of wealthy young socialite crowd that some actual celebrities hung out with, and this crowd included among others, Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian. Once the media got wind of them, they were like the perfect tabloid fodder- pretty, wealthy, somewhat out of control, and without any actual careers, jobs or anything to compete with the tabloids’ attention as far as fame is concerned. I suspect those two ended up where they are, because in the very early stages, being the heiress to the Hilton hotel empire and being the daughter of OJ Simpson’s late defense attorney and step-child of Bruce Jenner were more interesting than just being some garden-variety rich girls. So are there equivalents elsewhere? Seems to me that there’s got to be some daughter of a rich noble family somewhere who’s famous for her antics, and because she’s part of that family, but not much else. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/22 "2015-10-27T20:12:07Z")
At the turn of the 20th century, there was [Evelyn Nesbit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Nesbit). And in mid-century Paris, there was [Liane de Pougy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liane_de_Pougy). Interestingly, the sons of both women became famous aviators. ---
**Author:** ![FeAudrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FeAudrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FeAudrey)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/23 "2015-10-27T22:44:19Z")
For a lot of these ladies, “famous for being famous” is a euphemism for “famous for success in a profession not usually mentioned in a family newspaper”, especially at the highest (kept woman) levels. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/24 "2015-10-27T23:02:58Z")
One of the twists in this is that when it comes to “celebrity for doing nothing worth celebrating”, places like Europe have an entire class of the population entirely committed to that role: Royalty and Old Aristocracy. Not quite exactly being famous for “nothing”, it’s famous for being born into the mostly useless later generations of families in which the elders at some point _did_ have recognizable achievements. In which case in the USA the likes of the Kardashians could be said to fit that mold, where dad made it big and the brood, raised near the cameras, simply ran with the ball afterwards. > [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > I’m from Spain. We almost literally only have those. You guys invented _Hola!_ Magazine. 'nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/25 "2015-10-27T23:24:04Z")
> [@Smitty](#): > > I am not counting other country’s royal families in this. Although in democratic countries, that’s pretty much what they are. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/26 "2015-10-28T03:04:34Z")
> [@FeAudrey](#): > > For a lot of these ladies, “famous for being famous” is a euphemism for “famous for success in a profession not usually mentioned in a family newspaper”, especially at the highest (kept woman) levels. And of course Kim K got her start in a sex tape. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/27 "2015-10-28T03:15:38Z")
> [@FeAudrey](#): > > For a lot of these ladies, “famous for being famous” is a euphemism for “famous for success in a profession not usually mentioned in a family newspaper”, especially at the highest (kept woman) levels. I just formulated a theory: It was impossible to be famous for being famous before the advent of newspapers. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/28 "2015-10-28T03:45:02Z")
Japanese have “talent” or “talents” that are famous for being small case famous. I think every society has folks that are famous for being famous… ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/29 "2015-10-28T04:17:03Z")
Before her spy trial, wasn’t Mata Hari famous for being famous? She ws neither a great beauty nor a great dancer. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/30 "2015-10-28T09:55:11Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > One of the twists in this is that when it comes to “celebrity for doing nothing worth celebrating”, places like Europe have an entire class of the population entirely committed to that role: Royalty and Old Aristocracy. Not quite exactly being famous for “nothing”, it’s famous for being born into the mostly useless later generations of families in which the elders at some point _did_ have recognizable achievements. From the OP: > [@](#): > > I am not counting other country’s royal families in this. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/31 "2015-10-28T11:12:28Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Though there are reality shows pre-dating it. I am pretty sure the current rash of such stars is was started by Big Brother. It was originally a Dutch show, and covered in the UK as a “look what these crazy foreigners are doing” story (as such things tend to be in certain sections of the media in the UK). In no time at all the show had taken over in the UK and a monster was born. TV networks everywhere realized they didn’t need to pay for actual writers and actors. You’re probably right, but the BBC had “Castaway” before that, which had a more BBC-style public interest aspect - put a bunch of people together on an island to film themselves trying to build a community (not lock them away under outside observation to do daft or humiliating “challenges” and generally make themselves notable by being obnoxious). Ben Fogle’s TV career has been built on that. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/32 "2015-10-28T11:20:13Z")
[Topical.](http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-destructive-sides-celebrity-culture-no-one-talks-about/) the problem is that we’ve decided that a person’s worth is measured by how much attention one can get, and we’ve created an environment to feed that with absolute garbage like _Survivor, American Idol,_ and reams of other bullshit. But I’d say this disgusting nonsense is a _Western_ phenomenon, not necessarily an American one. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/33 "2015-10-28T11:27:05Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Not exactly. > > OP is talking about people who are AAA-list famous, despite a conspicuous lack of any discernible talent. Right, so what’s the discernible talent in once having dated the cousin of the sister-in-law of the hairdresser of someone who was in BB3? 😕 There’s people who make a living out of that. As **Sr Siete** said, most of the people in the Spanish glossies make Isabel Preysler look like the height of talent, and while I’m sure she has a lot of it it’s in the trade of “making important men feel important”. **JRDelirious** , Hola is among the classy ones… imagine what the bottom of the heap is like :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/34 "2015-10-28T11:29:43Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Before her spy trial, wasn’t Mata Hari famous for being famous? She ws neither a great beauty nor a great dancer. She was a pretty bad spy, too. And not just because she got caught ;). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/35 "2015-10-28T11:30:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > From the OP: You can’t really exclude it IMO. Scuttlebutt about the comings and goings of the titled and landed and those around them seems to be the direct ancestor of this phenom. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/36 "2015-10-28T13:08:47Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > The “brand leader” in creating a brand out of next to nothing (or with next to nothing on) is Katie Price, who started marketing herself as a topless model with unfeasibly enhanced breasts (since reduced), then built a whole living out of getting TV series filmed of her supposed homelife, **published a novel over her own name** , launched own brand merchandise, and even had a disastrous attempt to become the UK’s representative in the Eurovision Song Contest. [QUOTE=Malden Capell] I loved the anecdote about **Katie Price’s book** , which was ghostwritten, that she would meet up with the ghostwritters and “Kate re-sits down with it and says, I want it to be this or that, or more powerful, and they just write it into book words.” [/QUOTE] How quaint that you both talk of her book in the singular when there are now literally dozens of them. Even if you discount the ones for children, she has ‘written’ seven novels and seven autobiographies. Which admittedly is not much of a feat, at least in any traditional sense, when she’s not the one who is doing any of the writing. > **[Katie Price](https://www.fantasticfiction.com/p/katie-price/)** > > Author Katie Price's list of books and series in order, with the latest releases, covers, descriptions and availability. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/37 "2015-10-29T10:34:32Z")
Jade Goody does count as AAA famous in that, in the UK at least, everyone knew who she was. We also have minor aristos who are famous for being rich - aristocracy is not royalty - and lots of reality shows where, if you were a contestant on a quiz show, they’re well-known enough that you might face a quiz that included “Joey Essex” as an answer. Essex is part of the name of his TV show, The Only Way is Essex, but he appears as a talking head on other shows listed as Joey Essex, giving his opinions as a famous person who can talk on camera. > [@PatrickLondon](#): > > You’re probably right, but the BBC had “Castaway” before that, which had a more BBC-style public interest aspect - put a bunch of people together on an island to film themselves trying to build a community (not lock them away under outside observation to do daft or humiliating “challenges” and generally make themselves notable by being obnoxious). Ben Fogle’s TV career has been built on that. Castaway was in the same year as the first UK Big Brother, but it really doesn’t count as a reality show - the participants really did live difficult lives on a remote island, building their own homes, harvesting peat, etc, with little kids and old people and everything, for a full year. Ben Fogle getting a TV career is only partly based on the way he acted there - he was, anyone could admit, a good member of this real community. Prior to going on Castaway he worked at a major magazine and is a right posh bod, not like the other Castaways. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/38 "2015-10-29T12:40:55Z")
Paris Hilton had a successful tv show. As do the Kardashian clan. Not sure they count for being “famous for being famous”. Otherwise most TV types would be included. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/39 "2015-10-29T12:52:10Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Paris Hilton had a successful tv show. As do the Kardashian clan. Not sure they count for being “famous for being famous”. Otherwise most TV types would be included. Both of those stemmed from being famous already, and famous for being the spotlight-hunting descendants of people who became famous for other reasons. I don’t think there’s many people who’d consider Hulk Hogan “a famous actor” or “a TV celebrity”, even though his wrestling career evidently took place on TV and he’s also ad a reality show. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873/40 "2015-10-29T13:10:48Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Castaway was in the same year as the first UK Big Brother, but it really doesn’t count as a reality show - the participants really did live difficult lives on a remote island, building their own homes, harvesting peat, etc, with little kids and old people and everything, for a full year. Ben Fogle getting a TV career is only partly based on the way he acted there - he was, anyone could admit, a good member of this real community. Prior to going on Castaway he worked at a major magazine and is a right posh bod, not like the other Castaways. It’s still a reality TV show, and he arguably wouldn’t have been famous without it. It’s irrelevant whether it was a _good_ reality TV show and that he was a nice guy / organizer on it. That said, I think he is a good presenter, so he’s not FfbF at this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-famous-for-being-famous-strictly-an-american-phenomenon/735873.md?page=3)