# Is 'fiancé' French or English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 5, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641 "2003-04-05T05:17:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![medhat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@medhat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medhat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/1 "2003-04-05T05:17:43Z")
How come there was no original English word to mean a bride/husband-to-be? Doesn’t this _francaisé_ sounding word make engagement look more like an imitation of French traditions? ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/2 "2003-04-05T05:31:50Z")
Well, English does have a habit of borrowing (heavily) from other languages. This is just another example. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/3 "2003-04-05T06:20:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by medhat \* > \*\*How come there was no original English word to mean a bride/husband-to-be? \*\* 😕 😕 What about the word “betrothed”? ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/4 "2003-04-05T06:32:39Z")
English is the language that mugs other languages, goes through their pockets, and takes whatever words look nice and shiny. ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/5 "2003-04-05T06:57:35Z")
I just learned an interesting thing about Google that maybe everyone else knew, but I didn’t. Anyway, say you search Google for “fiance.” At the top of the page is a bar that says > [@](#): > > Searched the web for [fiance.](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fiance&r=67) In that line, the word you looked up is hyperlinked. You can click it for the definition, the roots, and an audible pronunciation. (I’ve linked it in my post.) Oh, and on fiance, it says: > [@](#): > > French, from past participle of fiancer, to betroth, from Old French fiancier, from fiance, trust, from fier, to trust, from Vulgar Latin \*fdre, from Latin fdere. See bheidh- in Indo-European Roots. Note the financial roots of the word. Just goes to show ya – when you get married, somebody’s going to pay. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/6 "2003-04-05T11:17:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DreadCthulhu \* > \*\*English is the language that mugs other languages, goes through their pockets, and takes whatever words look nice and shiny. \*\* I wonder what that makes Japanese 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/7 "2003-04-05T13:45:09Z")
While the English language has drawn heavily from nearly every other language, don’t forget that, after the invasion of the Normans, led by William the Conqueror, England was ruled by Frenchmen for centuries. So, while English may have “borrowed” from many languages, it didn’t “borrow” from French so much as French FORCED its way in. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/8 "2003-04-05T16:00:53Z")
Also, don’t forget that we borrowed both ‘fiance’ and ‘fiancee.’ The first being the husband to be, the second, the wife to be. Jman ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/9 "2003-04-05T16:14:38Z")
As with most borrowed words, particularly in Japanese, its not that no word existed before the borrowing, but rather the borrowed word is better and the old one is forgotten. To continue with the thief motif (band name), its like a thief who goes through your stuff and looks to see if you have anything nicer than what he has. 31’’ TV? I only have a 27’’, so I’ll take that… ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/10 "2003-04-05T17:34:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DreadCthulhu \* > English is the language that mugs other languages, goes through their pockets, and takes whatever words look nice and shiny. Substitute “adopts” for “takes” and this is about right. Think of it as a 1000-year-long program of multiculturalism. ---
**Author:** ![Destination\_Unknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@Destination\_Unknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Destination_Unknown)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/11 "2003-04-05T19:32:41Z")
I don’t know of many muggers that “adopt” somebody’s wallet. The substitution ruins the analogy ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/12 "2003-04-05T19:43:45Z")
Well it’s not that great of an analogy to begin with. It’s not like the original language loses anything. It’s more like you have a baby picture in your wallet that you show everyone, and a mugger swipes it, makes a photocopy, and returns the original. So now you have something to share. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bradwalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@bradwalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bradwalt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/13 "2003-04-05T19:46:44Z")
And don’t forget, English words are borrowed by other languages, probably more often than English “mugs” from others! Nobody on this thread has admitted this! In particular, the French “mugged” the English “weekend”, even though the use of the letter “w” is extremely uncommon in the French language! There are many English words which have been “adopted” by dozens of languages: I think “airport” and “OK” are probably used in every language. There are many threads on this subject, and I can provide other cites. ---
**Author:** ![bradwalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@bradwalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bradwalt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/14 "2003-04-05T19:50:56Z")
And what about words we STILL don’t have in English ? Examples: The relationship between your parents and your wife’s parents. I think there’s a Yiddish word for this. Using offfice supplies and equipment for your personal needs. I think there’s a word for this in Italian slang. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/15 "2003-04-05T20:12:17Z")
Before 1066 and the Norman invasion the English simply drug women off by their hair. Hence no engagement and hence no word “fiancee”. The French are such a civilizing influence on the world. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > _originally posted by bradwalt_ > **And don’t forget, English words are borrowed by other languages, probably more often than English “mugs” from others! Nobody on this thread has admitted this! In particular, the French “mugged” the English “weekend”, even though the use of the letter “w” is extremely uncommon in the French language!** I met a Frenchman that worked at Disney World outside of Paris. He said he was **Mikey Moose.** I personally thought it gained something in the translation. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/16 "2003-04-05T22:16:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > While the English language has drawn heavily from nearly every other language, Not quite every language, but I did find borrowings from over 200: [Borrowed English](http://www.nwlink.com/~dtilque/WWarticles/BorrowedEnglish.html) BTW, the guy who came up with the “English mugs other languages” metaphor is James Nicoll in rec.arts.sf.written. I don’t remember his exact words, but they included something about following them down an alley before mugging them. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/17 "2003-04-05T22:32:06Z")
Words like “fiancee” and “enciente” were the “in-thing” with 19th century English society. (One of my own ancestors, rather than be named simply “Emily” was given the French spelling “Emilie”.) I don’t think it’s French terms “forcing” their way in at all, **astorian**. It’s just that “fiancee” stuck, and “enciente” (for example) remains dated. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/18 "2003-04-05T23:11:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bradwalt \* > The relationship between your parents and your wife’s parents. I think there’s a Yiddish word for this. Yes, boychik. It’s “strained”. ---
**Author:** ![cleops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@cleops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cleops)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/19 "2003-04-06T00:07:00Z")
Since I see the nit, I’ll pick it: that’s “enc **ei** nte,” for “pregnant”–right, **Ice Wolf**? ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641/20 "2003-04-06T01:27:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bradwalt \* > \*\*Using offfice supplies and equipment for your personal needs. I think there’s a word for this in Italian slang. \*\* [ul]😃 [sup] **Is it “Olivetti”?** [/sup][/ul] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiance-french-or-english/166641.md?page=2)