# Is "Fiddler on the Roof" esp. popular in Israel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566 "2008-08-11T03:37:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/1 "2008-08-11T03:37:37Z")
Given its setting and Israel’s demographics? Just wondering. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/2 "2008-08-11T06:20:44Z")
Chaim Topol is considered something of a national treasure in Israel and in no small part because of his portrayal of Tevye. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/3 "2008-08-11T06:59:44Z")
Actually, we find it kind of embarrassing. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/4 "2008-08-11T08:26:36Z")
How about Yentl? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/5 "2008-08-11T15:40:04Z")
How about _The Hebrew Hammer_ ? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/6 "2008-08-11T16:02:25Z")
\*Hebrew Hammer \* was never released here, thank God, and _Yentl_… that’s the one with the guy from \*Princess Bride \* in it, right? Now, THERE’S a movie that’s popular around here. In short, no, Israelis don’t feel much of a connection with _Galut_ Jewish culture. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/7 "2008-08-11T16:09:57Z")
Isn’t FITR set in 1880’s Czarist Russia? Seems a bit old fashioned to me…its like Irish-Americans thinking that Ireland is a land of bogs and leprechauns. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/8 "2008-08-11T16:49:05Z")
So, do Israelis mess with the Zohan? ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/9 "2008-08-11T17:12:20Z")
FWIW, in my young American Orthodox circles, _Fiddler_ is considered a basic background thing that everybody’s seen at some point, but isn’t something anybody particularly loves or anything. My grandparents loved it; probably all my friends’ grandparents loved it. How many people love the movies their grandparents loved? I’ve never even seen _Yentl_, nor do I feel there’s a gaping hole in my life for the lack of it. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/10 "2008-08-11T17:18:41Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Isn’t FITR set in 1880’s Czarist Russia? Seems a bit old fashioned to me..its like Irish-Americans thinking that Ireland is a land of bogs and leprechauns. [/QUOTE] Someone hasn’t seen _Finian’s Rainbow_ recently. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/11 "2008-08-11T18:01:40Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Isn’t FITR set in 1880’s Czarist Russia? Seems a bit old fashioned to me..its like Irish-Americans thinking that Ireland is a land of bogs and leprechauns. [/QUOTE] Eh, they do. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/12 "2008-08-11T18:16:58Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] Actually, we find it kind of embarrassing. [/QUOTE] Are you sure it’s not just hip and young Israelis that find it embarrassing? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/13 "2008-08-11T18:45:42Z")
It also reminds the older people of the world they moved here to get away from and the type of people they used to be. In a way, Tevye’s nothing more than a Jewish version of Uncle Remus. So… no. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/14 "2008-08-11T18:50:43Z")
What about authors such as Chaim Potok (sp?). I’ve always been curious if Jewish authors are as popular there as here (USA). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/15 "2008-08-11T18:59:52Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] In a way, Tevye’s nothing more than a Jewish version of Uncle Remus. [/QUOTE] I have always hated that movie, in no small part because my step-mother played the soundtrack to death when I was a kid, but I was never able to articulate why. You have nailed it, Brother. That was very astute. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/16 "2008-08-11T19:15:27Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] It also reminds the older people of the world they moved here to get away from and the type of people they used to be. In a way, Tevye’s nothing more than a Jewish version of Uncle Remus. So… no. [/QUOTE] I’ve been to Israel several times, I know many Israelis, I’m Jewish and know many, many other Jews and I’ve never heard of anyone think of Fiddler that way. Campy, and corny maybe, but definitely not as an offensive stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/17 "2008-08-12T01:58:53Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] In a way, Tevye’s nothing more than a Jewish version of Uncle Remus. [/QUOTE] I don’t pretend to know what is or isn’t popular in Israeli pop-culture, but I can’t think of any resemblance offhand twixt Tevye and Uncle Remus. Is this a reference to the fact that in the Sholem Aleichem stories they were told in dialogue form? Or are you thinking Uncle _Tom_, maybe (for the way he grins and bears it with the constable- until the end)? I still can’t see it really- he supports his family, tries to stay out of trouble, fights or takes a stand when he has to (e.g. the wedding reception, ordering the constable off his property) and tries to get some enjoyment out of life where he can. His bad-ass son-in-law Perchik tries to change the system and lets it be known he’s not going to settle for what his fathers and ancestors did- and winds up in a prison camp in Siberia [what good is that to anyone?] where he may or may not die- we’re not told [the stories may- I know that Motel and Golde both die [of natural causes] in the book and IIRC when last seen Tevye and Tzeitel and his grandchildren emigrate to _Israel_ rather than the USA]). I remember that one of his daughters in the stories (where he has about 7 or 8 rather than the 5 from the movie/play) marries a very rich Tsarist businessman as well. He of course loses everything- nothing quite works right for Tevye’s family. Anyway, potato potahto, still the same latke. I _love_ Tevye and FotR- one of my favorite performances and favorite musicals, largely due to its universality. One of my favorite tales is of the first Japanese production: > [@](#): > > “When the first Japanese production of Fiddler was produced, the composers Harnick, Bock and Stein went to Japan. They were all very nervous. ‘How’s a New York interpretive Jewish musical is going to work in Japan? During production they are all anxiously biting their nails. At the end the Japanese producer comes over to them and says: I don’t understand, I don’t know how this piece can work so well in New York. It’s so Japanese!” ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/18 "2008-08-12T02:09:32Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] … One of my favorite tales is of the first Japanese production: [/QUOTE] … I don’t understand, I don’t know how this piece can work so well in New York. It’s so Japanese!” [/quote] Perhaps it was smaller and used less petrol. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/19 "2008-08-12T21:59:11Z")
Yeah, I have to agree with **cainxinth** and **Sampiro** rather than **Alessan** regarding Tevye and FotR in general. The Tevye/Golde family could’ve been my grandmother’s – she’d’ve been the right age to be one of Tevye’s youngest daughters, assuming the movie takes place in the early 1900s – and I see nothing stereotypical or cartoonish in the portrayal of the Jews in either the show or film, certainly nothing I’d find shameful as a representation of Jewish people. My parents – first generation Americans born of Russian/Polish immigrants – loved the show. So did I. And my 12-year-old niece, who sadly never knew her Jewish grandparents or great-grandparents, loves the movie herself. Of course it’s generally an affectionately humorous take, filled with typically self-deprecating Jewish humor, and there’s some exaggeration, but at Uncle Remus levels of stereotype? Nothing anyone in the cast of characters says is near “Tar Baby sits an’ don’ say nuffin’” level. Tevye’s not a paragon, he’s an interesting combination of envy, humility, egotism, gentleness, ill-temper, paternalism, deference, rebelliousness, cowardice, bravery, narrowmindedness and _open_mindedness. And in the role, Topol gives one of my favorite performances, both subtle and multi-layered. What astonishes me is how, seeing him in relatively recent pictures, he looks barely changed. Helps that he was incredibly young when the film was made. (As a kid I always placed him in his fifties, but of course Tevye was probably more in his late thirties or so. Living in shtetl poverty ages you!) If **Alessan** ’s estimation of Israeli sentiment towards FotR is correct, then IMO some of our Israeli cousins need to get the stick out of their _tuchas_es and embrace their pasts, not be ashamed of it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566/20 "2008-08-12T22:08:55Z")
[QUOTE=choie] Yeah, I have to agree with **cainxinth** and **Sampiro** rather than **Alessan** regarding Tevye and FotR in general. The Tevye/Golde family could’ve been my grandmother’s – she’d’ve been the right age to be one of Tevye’s youngest daughters, assuming the movie takes place in the early 1900s – and I see nothing stereotypical or cartoonish in the portrayal of the Jews in either the show or film, certainly nothing I’d find shameful as a representation of Jewish people. My parents – first generation Americans born of Russian/Polish immigrants – loved the show. So did I. And my 12-year-old niece, who sadly never knew her Jewish grandparents or great-grandparents, loves the movie herself. Of course it’s generally an affectionately humorous take, filled with typically self-deprecating Jewish humor, and there’s some exaggeration, but at Uncle Remus levels of stereotype? Nothing anyone in the cast of characters says is near “Tar Baby sits an’ don’ say nuffin’” level. Tevye’s not a paragon, he’s an interesting combination of envy, humility, egotism, gentleness, ill-temper, paternalism, deference, rebelliousness, cowardice, bravery, narrowmindedness and _open_mindedness. And in the role, Topol gives one of my favorite performances, both subtle and multi-layered. What astonishes me is how, seeing him in relatively recent pictures, he looks barely changed. Helps that he was incredibly young when the film was made. (As a kid I always placed him in his fifties, but of course Tevye was probably more in his late thirties or so. Living in shtetl poverty ages you!) If **Alessan** ’s estimation of Israeli sentiment towards FotR is correct, then IMO some of our Israeli cousins need to get the stick out of their _tuchas_es and embrace their pasts, not be ashamed of it. [/QUOTE] I think some of you are somewhat missing the point. I love _Fiddler on the Roof_ myself, but I can well understand why some - particularly Israelis - would not. It isn’t that it embraces negative or offensive stereotypes of Jewish culture - far from it; it is a very affectionate and sympathetic portrayal of Jewish culture as it existed in Eastern Europe at the time … but it is a culture that Israelis in particular deliberately abandoned and turned their collective backs on, because it was, in essence, a culture of persecution and humiliation. It is the same reason (in part) why Israelis adopted Hebrew and not Yiddish as their national language. It is in part a deliberate act of cultural re-engineering. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fiddler-on-the-roof-esp-popular-in-israel/459566.md?page=2)