# Is figure skating a sport? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147 "2007-01-30T18:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/41 "2007-01-30T21:43:03Z")
Being athletic and coordinated =/= sport ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/42 "2007-01-30T21:44:44Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I was just going to say, “did I say I was?” Then I re-read my post. Let me amend a slight typo! Sorry about that! :smack: [/QUOTE] No problem! I’m still laughing over the visual I conjured up on that one! It’s right up there with Chris Farley being a Chippendale Guy! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/43 "2007-01-30T21:47:46Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] No problem! I’m still laughing over the visual I conjured up on that one! It’s right up there with Chris Farley being a Chippendale Guy! 🆒 [/QUOTE] OK…hold on there! I haven’t gained THAT much weight. YET!!! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/44 "2007-01-30T21:58:07Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] OK…hold on there! I haven’t gained THAT much weight. YET!!! [/QUOTE] Awwww, you’re probably a cute little pregnant lady! The question is, are you wearing a tutu? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/45 "2007-01-30T21:59:39Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Awwww, you’re probably a cute little pregnant lady! The question is, are you wearing a tutu? [/QUOTE] Every day…why should I change my fabulous sense of style, just because I’m pregnant? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/46 "2007-01-30T22:05:14Z")
A hippo in a tutu is one of my mom’s favorite images. It must be in a Boynton book somewhere. [http://homepage2.nifty.com/hipomi/ballerina/eballerina.html](http://homepage2.nifty.com/hipomi/ballerina/eballerina.html) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/47 "2007-01-30T22:07:33Z")
[QUOTE=gigi] A hippo in a tutu is one of my mom’s favorite images. It must be in a Boynton book somewhere. [http://homepage2.nifty.com/hipomi/ballerina/eballerina.html](http://homepage2.nifty.com/hipomi/ballerina/eballerina.html) [/QUOTE] Okay, I’m going on record here as the person who was _not_ reminded of a hippo in a tutu when thinking of Sarafeena preggers. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/48 "2007-01-30T22:09:19Z")
OMG, I’m going to have to post a current pic of myself, aren’t I? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/49 "2007-01-30T22:11:39Z")
I believe that’s SOP. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/50 "2007-01-30T22:46:13Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] You would rule out darts and bowling, but not pool? [/QUOTE] Pool is out too. Placing a ball where your opponent can’t make a shot is strategy. Throwing a 9 ball at your opponent while he is trying to make a shot is defense. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/51 "2007-01-30T23:35:39Z")
[QUOTE=Asimovian] Perhaps one reasonable way you could define a sport vs. a competition is head-to-head contests vs. competing against someone else’s time or score. By this definition, golf, bowling and figure skating would not be sports, but boxing would be. A “sport” would be defined as a competition where winning and losing is determined by your direct actions towards and reactions to your opponent. In other words, there has to be physical interaction between opponents – some kind of offense and defense. [/QUOTE] So you rule out all racing (run, bicycle, ski, swim), track and field, gymnastics, golf, ski jumping, diving, and so on, but fencing would count? And since no one else has, from [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) > [@](#): > > an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. From [Yahoo dictionary](http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/sport;_ylt=AiD0M8gaMIbk5rmugxriGcasgMMF) > [@](#): > > An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/52 "2007-01-30T23:42:44Z")
> [@Sarafeena](#): > > The easiest apparatus to illustrate this with is the vault. Each potential vault is worth X number of points, which is pre-determined. The judge merely watches to see if the vault is completed correctly, and deducting points for various parts of it that weren’t done quite right… > > The reason I see a sport like gymnastics being different from figure skating is because of the fact that each trick is worth X number of points, and each fault is worth X number of point deduction, and all this is determined in advance by a governing body. Technically speaking, it’s not “subjective” as many people claim. Judging artistic merit, on the other hand, much more subjective…and makes it much harder to prove bias on the part of judges. You may be interested to know that skating is much the same as you descibe. See [this page](http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-152055-169271-nav-list,00.html) at the International Skating Union’s web site. From that page, you can link to a number of PDF documents describing points awarded and deducted for what skaters do (or don’t do, or do incorrectly). For example, I had a look at ISU Communication No. 1319, Single and Pair Skating Rule Changes. Under Rule 322, paragraph (1)(f), I found the Scale of Value describing points awarded. It’s a big table that is too unwieldy to replicate here, but under Rule 353, I found a number of assorted deductions that are easier to quote here. A sample follows: > [@International Skating Union](#): > > Deductions are applied for each violation as follows: > > time violation - 1.0 for every 5 seconds lacking or in excess; > music violation - 1.0 for vocal music; [Note: Another rule states that only instrumental music is permitted; hence, this seemingly odd deduction.] > illegal element violation - 2.0 for every illegal element; > falls -1.0 for every fall (of one or both competitors in Pair Skating); > > For interpretation of this Rule, a fall is defined as the loss of control by a skater resulting in both blades leaving the ice and the skater landing immobile, (even momentarily) loss of control by a skater resulting in both blades leaving the ice, and/or any part of the body core or both hands or one hand and one knee touches the ice for stabilization. It sounds very much like the gymnastics that you are describing: point values for various elements are pre-defined; deductions are also pre-defined. Even a fall is carefully defined. I’m not going to get into the “figure skating is/is not a sport” argument, but I did want to point out that it is not a case of skating judges saying “Well, that was pretty good, I guess that deserves a 9.5.” (From Russian judge, 9.1. :D) When you read the judging documents published by the ISU, it does seem very similar to the gymnastics system you describe, and not as subjective as many people think. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/53 "2007-01-30T23:50:37Z")
[QUOTE=Tastes of Chocolate] So you rule out all racing (run, bicycle, ski, swim), track and field, gymnastics, golf, ski jumping, diving, and so on, but fencing would count? [/QUOTE] Um, well…yes. This is not to say that I think any less of any of the items on that list (particularly since, as I mentioned earlier, bowling would also be there). I just think an activity can be a challenging and exciting competition without necessarily being a sport. > [@](#): > > And since no one else has, from [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) > > > [@](#): > > > > an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. > > From Yahoo dictionary > > > [@](#): > > > > An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively. Hunting? Really? I don’t personally know anyone who feels that an activity can be a sport even if it’s not competitive. Then again, Merriam Webster says that a sport is a “physical activity engaged in for pleasure.” I think we’re just opening the flood gates if we define “sport” that broadly. If we’re stuck with the dictionary definitions, then the answer to the OP’s question is a resounding yes, but then, so is hearty sex. Hmm – that gives me a programming idea for ESPN 8… ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/54 "2007-01-30T23:51:20Z")
[QUOTE=Intelligently Designed] What is “measured objectively”? By a computer rather than by a human? If so, does that mean that running the 100 meters is a sport today but wasn’t 75 years ago? [/QUOTE] I would say that removing human judgement to make the scoring objective would suffice. “Time” as a variable would be objective. Human error 75 year ago involved reaction time to hit the button, but now it is computerized. As I said, it is _my_ criteria… ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/55 "2007-01-31T00:21:21Z")
[QUOTE=phungi] My criteria, which usually comes up around the Olympics and X-Games (and happens to exclude some of my favorites) is: A. If it cannot be _objectively_ measured, timed, counted, or documented, then it is not a sport and has no place in the competition. This rules out anything that involves refs or judges (Hockey, Basketball, Ice Skating, Gymnastics, Snowboarding tricks, etc). [/QUOTE] So, no boxing? Boxing scores are subjective _and_ secret! ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/56 "2007-01-31T00:22:38Z")
Also, adding “no refs” to your criteria makes it meaningless. Are there any sports that don’t have refs or rules judges or something? Sports have to have rules which have to be followed if it’s to make any sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![Charger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@Charger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charger)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/57 "2007-01-31T00:39:21Z")
Figure skating has entertainment value, the competitors demonstrate articulation while being interviewed, they don’t have a legion of worshippers who give them scholarships for a never-to-be-used education and they are not allowed to get away with appalling criminal behavior. Therefore, not a sport. YMMV, of course. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/58 "2007-01-31T00:51:56Z")
[QUOTE=Charger] Figure skating has entertainment value, the competitors demonstrate articulation while being interviewed, they don’t have a legion of worshippers who give them scholarships for a never-to-be-used education and they are not allowed to get away with appalling criminal behavior. Therefore, not a sport. YMMV, of course. 😃 [/QUOTE] Appalling criminal behavior. Tonya Harding. I know that was too easy. Many football players are quite intelligent (I’m assuming that is what you are mostly refering too). At least the ones that make it to the pros. There is a big mental componant to the sport. As for being articulate, Tiki Barber, Jerry Rice, Peyton Manning, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Walter Payton, Joe Montana…I can keep going those are just the first few that popped into my head. Of course there are quite a few blockheads too. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/59 "2007-01-31T01:11:00Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] So, no boxing? Boxing scores are subjective _and_ secret! [/QUOTE] It warrants mentioning that boxing HAS been working on the idea of publicizing ballots during the matches. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/60 "2007-01-31T01:35:20Z")
[QUOTE=phungi] If it cannot be _objectively_ measured, timed, counted, or documented, then it is not a sport and has no place in the competition. This rules out anything that involves refs or judges (Hockey, Basketball, Ice Skating, Gymnastics, Snowboarding tricks, etc). [/QUOTE] This is an interesting philosophical position, but you’re taking the worst “Sport” and using it in a way that it’s clearly not used anywhere in the English-speaking world. You can’t just change the word’s definition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147.md?page=4)