# Is figure skating a sport? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147 "2007-01-30T18:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Charger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@Charger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charger)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/61 "2007-01-31T01:47:36Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] Appalling criminal behavior. Tonya Harding. I know that was too easy. [/QUOTE] I said _allowed to get away with_ appalling criminal behavior. I didn’t say they were immune from doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/62 "2007-01-31T02:20:55Z")
[QUOTE=Spoons] You may be interested to know that skating is much the same as you descibe. See [this page](http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-152055-169271-nav-list,00.html) at the International Skating Union’s web site. From that page, you can link to a number of PDF documents describing points awarded and deducted for what skaters do (or don’t do, or do incorrectly). For example, I had a look at ISU Communication No. 1319, Single and Pair Skating Rule Changes. Under Rule 322, paragraph (1)(f), I found the Scale of Value describing points awarded. It’s a big table that is too unwieldy to replicate here, but under Rule 353, I found a number of assorted deductions that are easier to quote here. A sample follows: It sounds very much like the gymnastics that you are describing: point values for various elements are pre-defined; deductions are also pre-defined. Even a fall is carefully defined. I’m not going to get into the “figure skating is/is not a sport” argument, but I did want to point out that it is not a case of skating judges saying “Well, that was pretty good, I guess that deserves a 9.5.” (From Russian judge, 9.1. :D) When you read the judging documents published by the ISU, it does seem very similar to the gymnastics system you describe, and not as subjective as many people think. [/QUOTE] I know that the scoring was revised after the Olympics scandal, and I am not that familar with the new system. But I thought that there was still judging for artistic merit, although it’s not called that anymore. So I looked it up on [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating), and it is phrased like this: [QUOTE=Wikipedia] The program components score (PCS) awards points to holistic aspects of a program or other nuances that are not rewarded in the total element score. The components are: skating skills (SS), transitions (TR), performance/execution (PE), choreography (CH), interpretation (IN). [/QUOTE] (The “total element score” referred to seems to be the part of the scoring you explain in your post.) So, I think there is still a major part of the judging based on very subjective and esoteric criteria, which I think does not quite qualify it to be a “sport.” ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/63 "2007-01-31T02:40:05Z")
I don’t think boxing is a sport any more than figure skating is. The main problem is the question of respect; not calling something a sport is usually seen as an insult. Here’s my take on the various activities, and what I classify them as: **Races** : NASCAR, IRL, Tour de France, much of the Olympics, etc… They aren’t sports; they are races. Beating your opponent to the finish line, or going at different times and declaring the shortest time as the winner makes the activity a race. **Fights** : Boxing, UFC, etc… They aren’t sports; they are fights. (Which, in my view, commands _more_ respect than the silly games I label as sports.) Physically beating your opponent into submission makes the activity a fight, not a sport. Civilization dictates that judging may come into play to preserve the health of the fighters. (Even still, I much prefered the old UFC without judging at all; ties meant _both_ guys lost.) Amateur wrestling and competitive martial arts get shoehorned into this category. **Competitions** : Athletic competitions that are decided by judges, or events where there is no interaction whatsoever between competitors. Much of the Olympic Games (note _games_) fall under this category, such as figure skating and gymnastics. Also weightlifting, cheerleading, bodybuilding, beauty pageants, American Idol, etc… **Games** : Objects, as opposed to humans, define the winners from the losers. Golf, billiards, darts, bowling, curling, videogames, cards, chess, board games, etc… If the score can legally be stopped by knocking the object away with your body, it’s a sport, not a game. (Hockey goalies, for example.) **Sports** : Human powered opponents in head to head competition employing active defense within a rigidly defined set of rules, objectives and boundaries. Football\*, baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey, tennis, volleyball, rugby, cricket, lacrosse and field hockey are all sports. (\*Includes Arena, Canadian and Australian rules.) I can’t think of any other sports at the moment. To me, these groupings have the nice effect of keeping like with like, which allows meaningful comparisons. I would also object to “strenuous physical training” being the sole criteria for something to be a sport. Neither the astronauts involved in the very competitive space race, nor the soldiers training for combat could be characterized as training for a sport. That would be demeaning them. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/64 "2007-01-31T02:50:06Z")
[QUOTE=Charger] I said _allowed to get away with_ appalling criminal behavior. I didn’t say they were immune from doing it. [/QUOTE] Harding went on to compete after the Kerrigan incident. Skaters get the same result as other athletes: bad PR. The reason that athletes seem to get away with so much is because their professions are the purest form of meritocracy that exists. The better competitor wins, period. What they do off the field is moot, and often what they do on the field is dealt with by suspension. Take steroids? Miss less than a season. (Football: 25% of a season. Baseball: 30%. Olympics: 50%.) Get caught actively cheating? You get stripped of the win, but are allowed to come back and compete another day. The thing that makes athletic competition so great is that the off-field stuff truly doesn’t matter. Nobody is perfect; why should athletes be expected to be? ---
**Author:** ![Chasing\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@Chasing\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chasing_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/65 "2007-01-31T06:05:36Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] … Take steroids? Miss less than a season. (Football: 25% of a season. Baseball: 30%. Olympics: 50%.) Get caught actively cheating? You get stripped of the win, but are allowed to come back and compete another day. The thing that makes athletic competition so great is that the off-field stuff truly doesn’t matter. Nobody is perfect; why should athletes be expected to be? [/QUOTE] Dang, are you sure those suspension figures are correct? I think you lump summed a whole shebang of sports into that Olympics category. For the record, if you a professional cyclist and get caught taking steroids in cycling on your first offense, you get a 2 year suspension from competition. A second offense nets you a life time ban. If your suspension periods for football and baseball are correct, then no wonder there is so much drug use in those sports. As for what constitutes a sport, you can’t use an engine and if you can compete at the top levels of the physical activity with a beer gut, it isn’t a sport no matter how much you like it. This rules out baseball, golf, curling, chess, bridge, bowling, darts, etc. By the same logic, figure skating is a sport and so is gymnastics. You have to be in good physical shape to compete in them. I’m kind of mixed about whether football is a sport because some of those guys are portly for no other reason other than they can tackle with more force. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/66 "2007-01-31T14:55:19Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] **Sports** : Human powered opponents in head to head competition employing active defense within a rigidly defined set of rules, objectives and boundaries. Football\*, baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey, tennis, volleyball, rugby, cricket, lacrosse and field hockey are all sports. (\*Includes Arena, Canadian and Australian rules.) I can’t think of any other sports at the moment. [/QUOTE] So, can you think of anything that you class as a sport that doesn’t involve a ball or something like a ball? (A hockey puck is a flat ball, for example.) So far I like your classifications - I’ve been learning golf, and it’s _really hard_, but I don’t really think it’s a sport. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147/67 "2007-02-01T01:37:00Z")
[QUOTE=Chasing Dreams] Dang, are you sure those suspension figures are correct? I think you lump summed a whole shebang of sports into that Olympics category. For the record, if you a professional cyclist and get caught taking steroids in cycling on your first offense, you get a 2 year suspension from competition. [/quote] A two year ban from the Olympics is only half of the 4 years between Olympics. Thus, I call it 50% of a season. And no matter how much you dislike baseball, (I can’t stand it,) it is a sport. **Zsofia** , not only can I not think of a sport that doesn’t involve a ball, but a while ago there was an entire thread devoted to that very question and nobody else could either. At least, not by the standards that I set. A bunch of people would mention things like gymnastics or skiing, but again I don’t really consider those as sports in the first place. IIRC, it was decided that “and uses some form of ball” was a nice catchall requirement to help easily identify sports. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-figure-skating-a-sport/390147.md?page=3)