# Is flashing for beads a form of sexual harassment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 2, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540 "2017-11-02T19:24:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/41 "2017-11-02T22:05:42Z")
Also, am I the only one who wishes Cracked would go back to Weird Science and History articles? I like the occasional social critique, but there’s a certain point where social messaging ruins comedy and it’s just not fun anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/42 "2017-11-02T22:59:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Maybe not, but there are many (most?) men who’ve been hurt or made to feel badly about themselves for having been subjected to the famous ‘bitch wall’ that women throw up whenever they feel a man they don’t want to be approached by encounters them. And most men haven’t been subjected to this “at some point” in their lives, it happens constantly. > > As I said, everyone has grounds for grievance. And there it is, definitive proof that everything women complain about is not merely true but understated. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/43 "2017-11-02T23:46:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > For every woman who’s been sexually harassed, I’ll show you a guy who’s been manipulated and lost a great deal (money, job, even family) by a woman or women who used their sexuality to take advantage of him. Or I can show you a woman who’s used her sexuality to compete with other women, or to land a job or promotion or movie role, etc. No, I strongly disagree. I won’t say that there are never occasions when a man is the victim of sexism. But there is no way that men face an equal amount compared to what women face. It’s not even close. Women face at least a hundred times the amount of sexism that men face - and if my estimate is wrong, it’s because it’s too low. That’s like claiming that black people and white people face an equal amount of racism in America. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I predict that one day relations between men and women will be what they’ve become with men and children, where men go out of their way to avoid looking at or being alone with them; in the case of women for fear of being accused of harassment or assault and losing their jobs or having to spend a ton of money defending themselves in court against allegations that “He approached/looked at me!” And I predict that day will never happen. Nobody wants a future in which people are not attracted to other people and nobody is working towards that future. What we’re trying to do is work towards a future where people can’t force themselves on the people they are attracted to. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/44 "2017-11-02T23:54:01Z")
**Starving Artist** is indeed dabbling quite heavily in both False Equivalence and Slippery Slope in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/45 "2017-11-02T23:59:13Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > If I worked somewhere where every man I met asked to see my tits, I would have a legal case for sexual harassment. Reverse it. If I showed my breasts to random men at the office, they would have the same case against me. We’re not talking about work. We’re talking about Mardi Gras. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/46 "2017-11-03T00:11:01Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > **Starving Artist** is indeed dabbling quite heavily in both False Equivalence and Slippery Slope in this thread. He has an explanation for that. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > A more apt 5th Dimension lyric in 1969 would have been “This is the dawning of the age of victi-im-hood…the age of victi-im-hood…VIC-TI-IM-HOOD…VIC-TI-IM-HOOD”… > > Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/47 "2017-11-03T00:20:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We’re not talking about work. We’re talking about Mardi Gras. And that’s not work? These tits aren’t gonna show themselves. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/48 "2017-11-03T00:20:12Z")
Rather like with election data, I’m getting pretty tired with having the boundaries of every gender debate on every issue defined by privileged, cosseted, narrow, often nepotism-supported middle class opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/49 "2017-11-03T00:29:17Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Rather like with election data, I’m getting pretty tired with having the boundaries of every gender debate on every issue defined by privileged, cosseted, narrow, often nepotism-supported middle class opinion. Nepotism-supported? Who’s related to whom here? ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/50 "2017-11-03T00:56:03Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > And that’s not work? These tits aren’t gonna show themselves. Actually, as designed at birth, they kind of do ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/51 "2017-11-03T01:05:00Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Rather like with election data, I’m getting pretty tired with having the boundaries of every gender debate on every issue defined by privileged, cosseted, narrow, often nepotism-supported middle class opinion. What isn’t being said that you think should be said? I’ve been irritated lately, or maybe always, by what I see as faux-recreational outrage about sexual assault in the media. It’s a bit of a joke to me, but I’m embittered by my own very negative experience of my family and community not giving a damn. People are trying to have a national dialog, I guess. I’m not holding my breath on anything changing. But it’s a lot easier to condemn the entire debate than it is to speak from my own experience about what I think needs to be done, and risk being censured yet again. We live in a world of manufactured moral extremes and I am overwhelmed by the real complexity of a lot of terrible phenomena. That is _especially_ true of sexual victimization. There are so many layers and considerations with regard to what contributes to it, how it happens, what the perpetrator intends or believes, what the social and emotional ramifications are. What I most resent is the media’s attempts to oversimplify all of those things so that people can go to bed at night believing they are on the right side of the issue without having to examine themselves or the society in which they live. Since **SA** has made an example of himself, this is someone whose very narrow definition of rape and sexual assault he finds abhorrent but whose attitudes and statements continue to undermine women’s credibility on every conceivable level and thus contribute heavily to the problem. On the flip side, I don’t feel too positively toward a society that assumes every unsupported claim is unassailable fact. I have to balance that with the reality that my own claim wasn’t believed, and it ruined my life. I also believe sexual assault can happen, or often does happen, out of pure ignorance, without intent, that you can be a rapist and not evil. Those are the conversations nobody wants to have. What we all yearn for is a simple Yes/No answer to the question ''Is flashing for beads a form of sexual harassment?" But there isn’t one. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/52 "2017-11-03T01:11:20Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Rather like with election data, I’m getting pretty tired with having the boundaries of every gender debate on every issue defined by privileged, cosseted, narrow, often nepotism-supported middle class opinion. Who is debating gender here? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/53 "2017-11-03T04:01:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We’re not talking about work. We’re talking about Mardi Gras. I’m going to be honest and say I don’t know. Apparently if you do flash your breasts, you can get ticketed for indecent exposure. I don’t know if asking someone to flash them is also something that can be penalized in NOLA. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/54 "2017-11-03T11:44:36Z")
In general, I don’t want kids to knock on my door and demand candy, but on Halloween I don’t mind it. If I didn’t want to hand out candy on Halloween, I wouldn’t answer the doorbell. As mentioned, context. Does that contribute to a culture of obesity in America? I suppose on some level it does, but I am not forcing anyone to do anything. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/55 "2017-11-03T12:22:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There’s an [article](http://www.cracked.com/pictofacts-821-insidious-ways-society-encourages-sexual-harassment/) on Cracked talking about different forms of sexual harassment that are seen as normal behavior by society. > > One of the items says this: > > I disagree. The premise that seems to be at work here is that all sex is sexual harassment; that a woman can never participate in a sexual act because she wants to do so. And I feel that’s ridiculous. > > What women get in return for flashing at Mardi Gras are plastic beads. These obviously are not a real reward. No woman has ever felt forced to flash so she can earn the plastic beads she needs to survive. This isn’t about food or shelter or a job opportunity. > > So if a woman is flashing for beads, the reason she’s doing it is because she wants to flash. And if a woman wants to flash her body, how is it sexual harassment? It’s not harassment when it’s a voluntary consensual sexual act. > > I will agree that it’s harassment if the crowd is trying to intimidate or coerce a woman into flashing. But as long as the woman is doing it by her own choice, I say it’s not harassment. It is my understand that you frequently hear the chant “show your tits” being directed at women on the balconies. I don’t know where that falls on the spectrum between gang-rape and glancing at a woman. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/56 "2017-11-03T12:52:27Z")
I like NOLA, but I’ve never gone during Mardi Gras. One year we were there, having a great time. A woman walked up to me and lifted up her shirt. She wanted beads, but I had none. I apologized, but she just stood there with her shirt up, demanding her prize. My gf went into a little store and bought a thing of beads. I gave the woman her beads and she stumbled away, satisfied. #awkward ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/57 "2017-11-03T15:07:30Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I’m going to be honest and say I don’t know. Apparently if you do flash your breasts, you can get ticketed for indecent exposure. I don’t know if asking someone to flash them is also something that can be penalized in NOLA. Has anyone ever been arrested in NOLA during Mardi Gras for flashing their tits? But even so, no one is forcing anyone to flash tits. If you don’t want to flash your tits, don’t flash your tits. If someone is exercising their free speech rights and it offends you, walk away. You’re not a captive audience, as you would be at work. Now, if someone shouts: _Kill the bitch RIGHT NOW if she doesn’t flash her tits_, that person is NOT exercising his free speech rights. That’s in imminent incitement to violence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/58 "2017-11-03T15:30:34Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Whatever happened to common sense? Why don’t you apply what you call “common sense” to this situation and tell us what you think, and we’ll see how “common” it really is? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/59 "2017-11-03T15:32:43Z")
What demeaning things do men have to do to earn symbolic trinkets during this festival? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540/60 "2017-11-03T15:35:41Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It is my understand that you frequently hear the chant “show your tits” being directed at women on the balconies. I don’t know where that falls on the spectrum between gang-rape and glancing at a woman. In my opinion it’s very low on the spectrum - in that particular situation. It’s a time and place where women choose to show their breasts and men (and other women) encourage them to do so. Yes, it would be wrong if you asked a woman to show her breasts in the workplace or in a store or even in a regular bar. But Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras is a situation where it’s an acceptable request to make and an acceptable act to take. But the rule of “no means no” still applies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-flashing-for-beads-a-form-of-sexual-harassment/800540.md?page=4)