ISTR that contact sports like football are actually safer for little kids than teens/adults, because when the kids are small and slow, there is much less energy - and resulting injury - from contact.
I don’[t watch much football, but I’m recovering from foot surgery for arthritis right now, and must admit I winced when I saw some of the hits yesterday. Of course, I’m a big fan of letting people fuck themselves up pretty much however they wish to.
http://www.johnmackeyfund.org/ftd.htm The after effects on Mackey. He is just one of many.
Gonzomax, I don’t quite understand the point of your links. Nobody is saying that football isn’t a potentially violent game. But you are arguing that it is too dangerous to be allowed! There’s a huge leap from one to the other.
Indeed, there was a time when football was so violent that it was threatened with banishment. Teddy Roosevelt , hardly a pussy, was concerned about the brutality and demanded reform.
But that time is many, many years ago. Now, we have a strictly regulated sport that is always taking efforts to minimize the danger, be it through protective equipment, rules changes, or even training methods (water breaks during practice are no joke anymore, especially since Korey Stringer’s death).
Every season there is a rules committee that examines the game and passes rules to outlaw dangerous behavior. Remember the tackle that broke Terrell Owen’s leg a few years ago? Now, it’s called a “horse collar” and is banned by the league. So, too, is the headslap, grabbing of the facemask, blocking in the back, chop-block, late hit, helmet to helmet, hands to the face…to hear some old-timers say it, the game today is downright tame.
Are you suggesting that these changes are insufficient, and the entire game needs to be scrapped? Never mind the billion dollar industry that is at stake; do you really think that the game can never be made safe for public participation?
If a radical change is going to be made to football (which I don’t think needs to happen, but just hypothetically,) my solution would be to do away with the pads and helmets and play it like rugby.
Far from being more dangerous, rugby is actually safer because the force of someone hitting you with full pads on is much greater than someone with only shorts and a jersey hitting you. Of all the sports I played, high school rugby was by far the one in which I saw the least amount of injury.
When I visit family on the holidays and people insist on inhibiting our family time by having football on the television, there is a great risk of dozing off from sheer boredom and falling off the couch and getting injured. Also, the frustration of travelling a great distance to see family members only a couple of times a year only to spend that time being shushed by people who have to hear what’s going on in the sacred game probably contributes to the development of ulcers. So, yeah, ban it. Please.
Football does not make it open how dangerous it really is. The former players face the league denying that concussions are a problem, even though medical evidence contradicts them. The NFL is covering it up. The players association caved into the owners.
I want the NFL to publicize how dangerous football is. I want kids to know that a pro line career will likely leave you crippled or with mental degradation.
I do not buy that every one knows how dangerous a game it is. High school and college players sure are not aware of the real physical cost a football player faces. We owe our kids that much.
Here’s a linkto a Washington Post Sunday Magazine article on that very subject, dated 03 Feb 2008 (Super Sunday). There was an on-line chat with the author Monday 04 Feb 2008.
Stories like this - of players used up and thrown away in their 20s to a lifetime of disability, while owners make billions - do not help the image of the NFL.
An article in my (Australian) newspaper claimed that the life expectancy of NFL players is 52. Anyone know whether this is true? It would be pretty startling.
There was a nice thread on drug prohibition a while ago that I think would be useful here in thinking about this. I mentioned an economic framework for considering when individual choices might be questioned:
And of course there are things short of prohibition in this case that might reduce our worry that people are making bad choices - independent medicos assessing returns after concussions; rules to limit the circumstances under which painkillers can be used to allow players to play an extra couple of weeks at the cost of 20 years a cripple etc.
I don’t have a site I can link to, but the current issue of Sports Illustrated (the one with Brady and Strahan on the cover) has a story on the battle between retired players and the union (specifically, union chief Gene Upshaw, an able bodied former offensive lineman who played in the Super Bowl in 3 decades), that specifically refutes that statistic, claiming that studies show that former players have a life expectancy at the national average.
Likely? Really? How about “possibly” instead? I’ll have to call you on a cite for that one…I just don’t believe that because you play pro football that leaves it “likely” to be crippled or mentally degraded.
I’ll concede that it perhaps increases the risk of that happening, but…
Define likely as opposed to possibly. Play pro football and you will come out hurt.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/09/01/IN183821.DTL
This is about Ted Johnson and Belichick. The NFL loves its players.
http://www.concussioncrisis.com/6-15-07_Strzelczyk.pdf Medical view of concussions in football.
I would say “possibly” is something that could happen, and “likely” is something that has around a 50-50 chance of happening. You’d also need to define “crippled.”
60 percent does not make it to likely. I do think that is too low a number anyway. I guess you are in charge of defining likely. Please do.
I’ve been reading this thread with interest and have been surprised at how many articles back you up. (I’ve read a few of them, not all.) Your attitude is confusing me. 60 percent is obviously more than 50-50, so by that standard I’d say injury is likely.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/21/SPG6JNM6MN1.DTL
Heres a team . Find if that meets likely .30 out of 45 so far.
The complete pussification of America continues. You should take a trip to a third world country and see what workers are doing to make that pair or jeans you’re wearing before you bemoan what people do on a football field.
When adult men make the decision to play pro football, that is their decision to make. As adults, they have that right. Millions of men have played football in college and high school without lasting injury. Like any decisions made in life, we must all look at the consequences. Pro athletes are willing to make that decision, and take that risk. Who are “we” to decide what they can and cannot do?
What about the benefits of playing football? I stayed in shape, developed a team concept, and playing football kept me out of trouble. It also paid my way into college, which would have been very difficult without the scholarship.
There are players who deliberately deliver hits meant to injure opponents, and anyone convicted of doing so should be banned from the sport. Blocking originally meant getting in the way so the opponent couldn’t complete his assigned task. It doesn’t have to mean bone-crushing jolts.
But before we ban players who play for blood and coaches who scream for it, let’s first ban hockey players who deliberately pick fights and eject those who participate. I’m all for bringing civility and sportsmanship back into professional athletics, but Hell will freeze before it actually happens.
Boxing? That’s the most pathetic excuse for athleticism ever. I don’t know how anyone can defend a sport, the object of which is to inflict a brain-damaging injury.
When I was a defensive tackle how was an offensive lineman supposed to block me from doing my job (namely getting the guy with the ball)? He darn well better charge into me as hard as he can otherwise I’m going to run him over and get the QB or tackle the RB as he attempts to run through a hole that never appeared. Blocking for some positions require bone crushing jolts.
It’s fun to watch?
Marc