# Is Football Too Dangerous? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 7, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597 "2018-10-07T04:40:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/21 "2018-10-07T20:16:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Sorry, I mistated; ad revenue is up, and although attendance is pretty flat ticket prices have risen, but [television ratings are declining](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanberr/2018/08/28/the-nfls-ratings-probably-will-continue-to-decline/#1bef8ea16666), and that is having a measurable impact on the [value of NFL teams](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2018/06/02/nfl-sale-prices-being-hurt-by-leagues-declining-popularity/#5ca036d37e94) as an investment. Some people have attributed this to the “Bend the Knee” protests but the trend predates that; more likely, it represents some combination of people “cutting the cord” and watching online content (which are difficult to track because streaming companies don’t report ratings the way television networks do) and an actual decline in popularity. Eventually that will catch up with the league if advertisers are unwilling to pay premium prices for slots and networks stop being so competitive with lucrative multi-year deals. > > But it isn’t gradual declines in popularity that is going to kill the NFL; it is lawsuits over the liability for CTE-related injuries and chronic syndromes about which owners have been long aware and took no measures to address or even inform players. Even if they can settle existing cases they’re going to have to address potential future injuries which will cut into their bottom line. The other option is to go to what would essentially be high tech flag football, e.g. simulated contact, and that sounds about as interesting to watch as professional golf. > > Oh that’s totally true, and in fact I’d go so far to say that competitive athletics is a money loser for all schools big or small. It was never intended to be a revenue stream for either public land grant or private institutions. It is, however, a marquee issue for the Power Five conference schools with big programs and popular teams, and even if the alumni donations themselves don’t actually pay for the team they attract attention that makes them a recognized name. Whether that is actually an important factor in attracting teaching and administrative talent, and more to the point, research money from private donors and corporate partners that is the main source of revenue for many schools is another question, but universities, and particularly large schools with substantial research revenues are often run in fiscally insensible fashion because they have money to burn. > > I’ll go one further and say that there is really no way to make the sport “safe” without essentially eliminating the physical contact aspect. It isn’t helmet to helmet contact that causes injury but oblique impact, both player-to-player and player-to-ground, and it is so pervasive that it is essentially guaranteed that players who play even for just a few years will have some degree of CTE-related impairment. Other sports like basketball or car racing can be dangerous, but the danger is incidental and occurs when ‘play’ goes wrong; for American football the impact action is part of normal play. > > I won’t say that we won’t see a Superbowl LXIV, but I’m doubtful it is going to have the same appeal and attract as much attention as it does today sufficient for the sport to be viable in the current professional league form and scale. > > Stranger Utter nonsense. Former players may attempt to sue because they can claim the league hid studies about CTE. Current players know the risk and play anyway. They won’t be able to sue. NFL ratings are on the rise in 2018. Drinking is more dangerous than football and its still damn popular. Football may have its ups and downs but it will still be viable in 2200…if there is still civilization. Boxing didn’t decline because of the danger; it declined because Don King almost killed it through corruption. Big fights still rake in tens of millions. Football is a social activity and people love to watch it and party. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/22 "2018-10-07T20:20:18Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/23 "2018-10-07T23:38:22Z")
I remember talk of “get rid of football; it’s too dangerous” back in '15. That is, 1915. Seriously, the annual “Big Game” between Cal and Stanford switched from football to rugby for three years because one, if not both, of the schools switched from football because of its dangers. There is semi-serious talk of doing this again (replacing football with rugby, that is). What I think is the main problem with this is, it’s going to have to be tweaked to allow more than three substitutions per team per game. Soccer has the same restriction, but the NCAA modified it to allow for more substitutions (I think the rule is, if a player comes out of the game before halftime, they can’t go back in until the second half; the first time a player comes out during the second half, they can go back in, but the second time, they’re out until overtime). ---
**Author:** ![BobBitchin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@BobBitchin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobBitchin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/24 "2018-10-07T23:50:15Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Utter nonsense. > > Former players may attempt to sue because they can claim the league hid studies about CTE. Current players know the risk and play anyway. They won’t be able to sue. > > NFL ratings are on the rise in 2018. > > Drinking is more dangerous than football and its still damn popular. > > Football may have its ups and downs but it will still be viable in 2200…if there is still civilization. > > Boxing didn’t decline because of the danger; it declined because Don King almost killed it through corruption. Big fights still rake in tens of millions. > > Football is a social activity and people love to watch it and party. To your Don King point, I was born in 68, I remember my Dad dismissing Boxing as mostly corrupt and fixed to one extent or another, when I was a kid in the 70’s. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/25 "2018-10-08T00:00:29Z")
I think what killed boxing was moving all the premiere matchups to pay-per-view. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/26 "2018-10-08T00:02:20Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Utter nonsense. > > Former players may attempt to sue because they can claim the league hid studies about CTE. Current players know the risk and play anyway. They won’t be able to sue. > > NFL ratings are on the rise in 2018. > > Drinking is more dangerous than football and its still damn popular. > > Football may have its ups and downs but it will still be viable in 2200…if there is still civilization. > > Boxing didn’t decline because of the danger; it declined because Don King almost killed it through corruption. Big fights still rake in tens of millions. > > Football is a social activity and people love to watch it and party. I agree, and you know what else? Football is probably the “truest” team sport there is in America, and it’s also a great platform for teaching sportsmanship and life lessons to young men. There are risks in every sport. Heck, heading soccer balls is a potentially concussive activity. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/27 "2018-10-08T00:03:26Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I think what killed boxing was moving all the premiere matchups to pay-per-view. That, Don King, a lack of compelling heavyweights after Tyson and MMA all killed boxing. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/28 "2018-10-08T01:12:19Z")
Football is dangerous - so is stock car racing. I think as long as people know what they’re getting into. I am more ambivalent when it comes to kids playing ball. Maybe no tackling until high school? Maybe limited or light contact even then? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/29 "2018-10-08T01:13:46Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > That, Don King, a lack of compelling heavyweights after Tyson and MMA all killed boxing. There were good heavies after Iron Tyke. There are good heavies again. I think boxing’s corruption and the rise of MMA briefly derailed boxing but it’s making a comeback. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/30 "2018-10-08T01:17:20Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I agree, and you know what else? Football is probably the “truest” team sport there is in America, and it’s also a great platform for teaching sportsmanship and life lessons to young men. There are risks in every sport. Heck, heading soccer balls is a potentially concussive activity. What does “truest” mean in this context? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/31 "2018-10-08T01:24:14Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > but as a major professional sport it is done in fifteen years, maybe ten. Laughable. It may change. It may recede. It may become gauche. But it’s not going anywhere in either of our lifetimes. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/32 "2018-10-08T01:33:19Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Despite all of the research that’s now going on to try to develop “safer” helmets, I’m not at all convinced that any helmet can really project against the concussions (and, even worse, the “subconcussive injuries”) that almost undoubtedly lead to CTE and other brain conditions. And, thus, I’m not sure that there’s any way to make the sport substantially safer, in that regard, without changing it beyond recognition. I believe that the answer is essentially a return to the “leather helmet” days of the sport. Get rid of the shoulder pads and helmets. they are not protective gear they are weapons, this point is clear to anyone who’s played the sport competitively. Keep most of the rules imposed to eliminate head-to-head contact and reduce the high-speed collisions, adding more to further protect runners/receivers. Maybe get rid of the 3-point stance for linemen. Ultimately the game will end up looking something more akin to lacrosse crossed with aussie football crossed with 7-on-7 football, but it will persist. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/33 "2018-10-08T01:42:01Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Laughable. It may change. It may recede. It may become gauche. But it’s not going anywhere in either of our lifetimes. Agreed. It’s what most people spend all day Monday talking about at my work during the season. Everyone knows about the concussions now and there are virtually no “skeptics” on the issue. And they don’t really care. Football isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/34 "2018-10-08T02:04:06Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Laughable. It may change. It may recede. It may become gauche. But it’s not going anywhere in either of our lifetimes. Going from by far the most popular sport to vanishing in 15 years, you have to be almost insane to really believe that. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/35 "2018-10-08T02:42:56Z")
This it totally anecdotal: my daughter rowed during high school. A lot of the kids on the team (young men and women 13-18 years old) transferred from other sports. By the time kids are 13+ they are usually committed to one sport/activity or another, so how do they end up in crew? For some of them, it was injuries in those other sports, typically soccer, basketball, and volleyball (even some former cheerleaders). There were not any football players as I recall, and only a few lacross players, but that may have had to do with body type. One of the team stars for a couple years was a transfer from soccer, where she was goalie and got kicked in the head and knocked unconscious, then decided to switch sports to something more low-impact. Even in rowing there are injuries. My son plays high school football, and has played for several years prior. I worry about injuries and more so about damage to his brain. There are a lot of risks with football, but there are risks with ALL activities. There is also risks incurred with NO sporting activities as well (sedentary habits, delinquency-trouble with drugs/substances, etc.). Would I rather my son was on the swim team?, sure, but that train left the station a long time ago and he has had a great time with the sport, and learned a lot (as all sports offer). He has signaled that after high school he has no illusions about playing college ball (he does not want to), which I support. Because football is popular both as spectator and participant, and is highly visible, it will get a lot of attention. Football is a very physical sport and there is a reason it is in the top tier when it comes to injuries. Is it too dangerous (operative word “too”)?, well, I dunno. You could argue that any activity is too dangerous if you only consider the risks without the benefits. I don’t think Pro football is going anywhere soon unless something else can usurp it’s dominance. I do think there are changes happening and will continue to happen to make play safer, but it will never be risk-free. For a risk-free existence, never leave home. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/36 "2018-10-08T03:15:34Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Although we haven’t gotten rid of it, the popularity of boxing has dropped way down from its peak. Of course, MMA, which is equally dangerous, has arisen although it has taken on overtones that are more akin to professional wrestling even if the actual fights are for real… > > …Football isn’t completely going away—they’ll play it in Texas until the sun expands and consumes the Earth—but as a major professional sport it is done in fifteen years, maybe ten. The question is what colleges will do, because for many schools football is a major source of alumni donation, and their sports programs are signatures that serve for amplify “ rand awareness” (ugh!). They are probably going to look for ways to modify the game to lessen impact and potential for CTE but allow it to be played at some level indefinitely… A couple of points. I don’t think MMA is as dangerous as boxing, if only because the cerebral pounding must be less, by design. The rounds are shorter, and combat consists of more than: hit him in the head (or do things that make it easier to hit him in the head), get hit, and hit back. He’s right about the damage probably being caused by the multiple tiny hits that are an inherent part of the game, and therefore, probably un-legislatable for fixing. I want to say that there’s a study where all of the players on the field got hooked up to cervical accelerometers (however you spell it) and they found that O and D-lineman took the most shocks in a game, just because they were the ones who were always hitting each other. We really need an _en vivo_ test or study that shows conclusively, the effects of playing tackle football on children’s brains, as well as adults. I think it’ll be 20-25 years, for Stranger’s “when will the NFL be done”, but I too think it’s going away soon, and it’ll be like his mentioning of boxing. You need a test that you can show Suzy Suburbia that, “if Chandler plays Pop Warner, he loses 3 IQ points, on average, for every year he plays.” Then it’ll be a ghetto sport, like boxing. (I will demur from answering the ghetto-ness, or lack thereof, of the football crazy schools of Texas.) Anyway, no suburb pipeline, no high school players. Not as many high school players, fewer D-1 teams. And fewer D-1 teams, fewer pros. There will always be some, like there’s still boxing. But it won’t be something that educators will encourage kids to do in 25 years. Just like boxing used to be something that educators used to get kids to settle their differences and blow off steam. I think Omni’s got it with returning the sport to more of its rugby roots. You can’t have human missiles flying around anymore and hitting people with their heads. Or at their heads. Oh yeah, almost forgot: didn’t most of the former players settle with the League already (for a pittance, IIRC) concerning any CTE or continuing injury liability? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/37 "2018-10-08T03:33:41Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I think Omni’s got it with returning the sport to more of its rugby roots. You can’t have human missiles flying around anymore and hitting people with their heads. Or at their heads. FWIW, and I’m no expert on the topic (though I started following the Irish rugby team a few years ago), but rugby players get a lot of concussions, too, and it’s not at all clear to me that changing to a rugby-like game would solve the problem (and rugby players suffer an awful lot of spinal and facial injuries, too). > **[Rugby uncovered: Game still has head in sand over the risks of brain damage](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11857548/Rugby-uncovered-Game-still-has-head-in-sand-over-the-risks-of-brain-damage.html)** > > Part two of a series which puts rugby under the microscope before the World Cup focuses on concussion and the sport's duty to protect players > **[Which Is More Dangerous, Rugby or Football?](https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2016/10/rugby/623035/)** > > Atlantic readers debate the question. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/38 "2018-10-08T03:42:46Z")
Some of you seem to be implying that the fall of boxing had something to do with it’s risks. It didn’t and I don’t think any serious researcher on the topic could argue that it did. Boxing fell due to competition, loss of trust and the changing media landscape. The corruption of the promoters and judges had orders of magnitude more impact than any health concerns. The biggest problem with boxing in the US is it’s lack of organization, and that lack of organization is what makes it viable in really poor countries with weak institutions. You don’t need a relationship with the sport to understand boxing and enjoy a fight, its visceral, but almost every organized team sport requires it’s fans to have familiarity with it to really appreciate it. Football is probably the most institutional of all sports, and for that reason it will hang on the longest. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/39 "2018-10-08T03:46:32Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > FWIW, and I’m no expert on the topic (though I started following the Irish rugby team a few years ago), but rugby players get a lot of concussions, too, and it’s not at all clear to me that changing to a rugby-like game would solve the problem (and rugby players suffer an awful lot of spinal and facial injuries, too). > > [Rugby uncovered: Game still has head in sand over the risks of brain damage](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11857548/Rugby-uncovered-Game-still-has-head-in-sand-over-the-risks-of-brain-damage.html) > [Which Is More Dangerous, Rugby or Football? - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2016/10/rugby/504143/) Football at it’s most lethal was very rugby-like. The forward pass was instituted as a _safety measure_. I definitely agree that this is not the future. But facial and spinal injuries are highly preferable to invisible brain injuries, and not nearly as pervasive as CTE appears to be. Like, not even in the same galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597/40 "2018-10-08T05:59:49Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > The first isn’t clear but sounds like a heat injury caused death. The second specifically mentions heatstroke as the cause of death. Heat injuries aren’t football specific. People switching to other sports won’t necessarily help that problem. To a certain extent these heat injuries are indeed football specific. The players are wearing thick padding and multiple layers in hot heat; something you wouldn’t see soccer or tennis players doing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-football-too-dangerous/822597.md?page=3)