# Is Fox and Friends really as dim-witted as Jon Stewart makes it out to be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286 "2010-08-24T13:43:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/81 "2010-08-25T19:20:27Z")
As long as no one mentions the word ‘hypocrisy’ we should be safe. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/82 "2010-08-25T19:27:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because there’s more than one way of being in bed. You and I may find ourselves trapped in an avalanche and forced to share a bed to avoid freezing to death, but it won’t be the same kind of bed-sharing that is typically undertaken for more… er… fun and recreational purposes. Already making excuses. “What happens in an avalanche _stays_ in an avalanche… now hold me tight and say Miss Gorightry I plotest”. [QUOTE=Bricker] It is even so with this situation. You lump together all financial dealings as though they are identical. But in the case of NewsCorp, their “in bed with” amounts to the fact that the guy called his broker and said, “Buy me a couple million shares of NewsCorp.” NewsCorp has no qualification test that a prospective stock owner must pass. Indeed, being a publicly traded corporation, they can’t. _NewsCorp’s financial association with Talal is not the product of a single voluntary act on the part of NewsCorp, nor could they sever the relationship if they wished to do so._ Is this also true of the funding of the "Ground Zero Mosque"ington Coat Factory? [/QUOTE] Did the “Big Mo’s Ground Zero Mulimegaplex & Grill” get money from bin Talal? Evidently. Did Fox get a shitload of money from bin Talal? Evidently. (I’m not a business major but my understanding is that when you get a large share of stock in a huge company it’s usually in exchange for a lot of money.) Does the fact that Fox anchors imply the Muslimegaplex has terrorist ties because of bin Talal when they themselves have received money from bin Talal but choose not to mention that and even go to lengths to _not_ mention it make them frigging hypocrites? Yep. A few years ago it was revealed that Michael Moore’s portfolio includes Halliburton stock and that he’s taken full advantage of several legal shelters and loopholes to pay less income tax just as fellow “corporations are all evil” leftie Noam Chomsky did with his own substantial holdings while condemning the rich and the 1%ers not being taxed enough. Do you find _this_ hypocritical? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/83 "2010-08-25T19:39:20Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > As long as no one mentions the word ‘hypocrisy’ we should be safe. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Do you find _this_ hypocritical? Uh oh. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/84 "2010-08-25T19:58:12Z")
:dubious: And, of course, Wikipedia wouldn’t lie. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/85 "2010-08-25T20:03:35Z")
> [@PhiloVance](#): > > :dubious: And, of course, Wikipedia wouldn’t lie. Well, it has a better track record than FOX. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/86 "2010-08-25T20:22:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How is it relevant that he’s a shareholder? Specifically. Because, as Fox News tells us, it’s bad that he’s giving money to Park51. Therefore, his share in NewsCorp is terrorist money. Or some damn thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/87 "2010-08-25T22:05:41Z")
> [@villa](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > That’s not the case here, so far as I am aware. His 7% is meaningless as far as influence or control. > > This just isn’t true. > > If you have 7% holdings in a major corporation you possess a pretty significant threat to the ownership of that corporation out of proportion to the size of your holdings. And that threat is to dump the stock at one time, causing a pretty seismic effect on the market cap of the firm. > > Of course, it only works if you are a phenominally wealthy person with significant other sources of income who can take that sort of financial hit. So clearly not relevant here. When I said “influence or control” I meant by the more usual path of voting your shares in favor of a seat or seats on the board. I grant that a threat to dump 7% of the stock at one time would cause a bad drop in market price, although at some point obviously bargain hunters would come in and pick it up. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/88 "2010-08-25T22:16:31Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Did the “Big Mo’s Ground Zero Mulimegaplex & Grill” get money from bin Talal? Evidently. > > Did Fox get a shitload of money from bin Talal? Evidently. (I’m not a business major but my understanding is that when you get a large share of stock in a huge company it’s usually in exchange for a lot of money.) Somebody did. If he bought it as the result of an IPO or subsequent stock issue, then maybe NewsCorp got the money. But if he bought it from other holders, then THEY got the money. > [@](#): > > Does the fact that Fox anchors imply the Muslimegaplex has terrorist ties because of bin Talal when they themselves have received money from bin Talal but choose not to mention that and even go to lengths to _not_ mention it make them frigging hypocrites? Yep. So if it were shown that Talal bought the stock from other holders, it would change your mind? > [@](#): > > A few years ago it was revealed that Michael Moore’s portfolio includes Halliburton stock and that he’s taken full advantage of several legal shelters and loopholes to pay less income tax just as fellow “corporations are all evil” leftie Noam Chomsky did with his own substantial holdings while condemning the rich and the 1%ers not being taxed enough. Do you find _this_ hypocritical? Not really. Unless I missed some specific criticism of Moore’s against Halliburton or tax shelters. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/89 "2010-08-25T22:55:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@Enderw24](#): > > > > This guy owns 7% of Fox. Seven percent. Mathematically, it would be impossible for him to be less than the 13th largest shareholder. In reality, he’s the SECOND largest shareholder. As in, the hierarchy goes 1) Rupert Murdoch. 2) Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. It’s probably on their letterhead over there. > > Al-Waleed (or rather, Kingdom Holdings), not Rauf. THIS. It’s not Rauf, it’s Al-Waleed that owns the NewsCorp shares. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/90 "2010-08-26T00:11:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I can’t stomach he show for more than a few minutes at a time, but from what I’ve seen, they really are that stupid. That Gretchen Carlson (the one who had to Google “ignoramus” and still got it wrong) is quite possibly the single dumbest person in all of cable news. Almost unbelievably vacuous at times, and incredibly self-righteous and smug at the same time. A living example of Poe’s Law. > > Doocey is kind of a dumbass too, though not to Carlson’s level. The other guy, Kilmeade, I think is of normal intelligence, but no genius and he offers no insight. He’s just kind of a chair filler and guy to introduce segments and shoot them to breaks. She’s not stupid. It’s all an act. They act like their viewers and it gets eaten up. Carlson graduated with honors from Stanford and studied at Oxford. The Daily Show did a bit on this actually. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/91 "2010-08-26T00:24:00Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > > [@PhiloVance](#): > > > > :dubious: And, of course, Wikipedia wouldn’t lie. > > Well, it has a better track record than FOX. Indeed. Wikipedia is self-correcting. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/92 "2010-08-26T04:44:09Z")
Bricker is just obfuscating the point. The point is that these people accused someone of getting monetary benefits from a certain guy,treating that like a bad thing, when they themselves also got money from the guy. It doesn’t matter if he bought the stocks from someone else, any more than it would matter if the guy had just paid people back for supporting the not-mosque. The point is that Fox benefits from having the guy own those shares. Throwing in a middle man does change that. The second the transaction was complete, it was bin Talal’s money that was supporting Fox. And having him support you is “bad,” according to them. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/93 "2010-08-26T09:17:46Z")
Wait wait wait wait wait… the show is actually called Fox & Friends? I thought that was just a condescending name The Daily Show gave these idiots to describe all the commentators disguised as news reporters. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/94 "2010-08-26T13:39:36Z")
> [@EvilTOJ](#): > > Wait wait wait wait wait… the show is actually called Fox & Friends? I thought that was just a condescending name The Daily Show gave these idiots to describe all the commentators disguised as news reporters. It’s their morning show. Like good morning America, only with weasels. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/95 "2010-08-26T13:46:29Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@EvilTOJ](#): > > > > Wait wait wait wait wait… the show is actually called Fox & Friends? I thought that was just a condescending name The Daily Show gave these idiots to describe all the commentators disguised as news reporters. > > It’s their morning show. Like good morning America, only with weasels. **cosmosdan** ’s receptionist: “The National Weasel Antidefamation League on the line for you…” ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/96 "2010-08-26T13:50:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Bricker is just obfuscating the point. The point is that these people accused someone of getting monetary benefits from a certain guy,treating that like a bad thing, when they themselves also got money from the guy. > > It doesn’t matter if he bought the stocks from someone else, any more than it would matter if the guy had just paid people back for supporting the not-mosque. The point is that Fox benefits from having the guy own those shares. Throwing in a middle man does change that. > > The second the transaction was complete, it was bin Talal’s money that was supporting Fox. And having him support you is “bad,” according to them. And it was fairly relevant that they haven’t offered any evidence at all that this investor supports terrorism in any way. They simply stated he funds radical Madrasahs all over the world in order to taint any money that might fund Park 51 ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/97 "2010-08-26T13:53:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > It’s their morning show. Like good morning America, only with weasels. > > **cosmosdan** ’s receptionist: “The National Weasel Antidefamation League on the line for you…” Very good 😃 The other day someone commented that relating Al Jazeera to Beck is unfair to Al Jazeera ---
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/98 "2010-08-26T16:00:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@Sampiro](#): > > > > Did the “Big Mo’s Ground Zero Mulimegaplex & Grill” get money from bin Talal? Evidently. > > > > Did Fox get a shitload of money from bin Talal? Evidently. (I’m not a business major but my understanding is that when you get a large share of stock in a huge company it’s usually in exchange for a lot of money.) > > Somebody did. If he bought it as the result of an IPO or subsequent stock issue, then maybe NewsCorp got the money. But if he bought it from other holders, then THEY got the money. > > So if it were shown that Talal bought the stock from other holders, it would change your mind? That would be difficult to believe, especially in light of [Fox News parent company News Corp. investing heavily](http://www.tradearabia.com/news/newsdetails.asp?Sn=MEDIA&artid=184910) in one of _his_ media companies, as part of a strategic alliance between the two. > [@](#): > > The top management of Saudi-based media group Rotana met under the chairmanship of Prince Alwaleed bin Talal bin Abdulaziz Alsaud to discuss the latest developments at Rotana after its strategic alliance with global media giant News Corp. > > The meeting, which was attended by Dr Waleed Arab Hashem, vice chairman and Fahad Alsukait, CEO, discussed ways to strengthen the strategic alliance with News Corp. > > According to a company statement, Newscorp bought a 9.09 per cent stake in Rotana Group in February to further develop its postion in the media sector in the Middle East and expand it horizon. > > Under the terms of the agreement, Rotana said the News Corporation would acquire newly-issued shares in Rotana for $70 million. News Corp has an option to boost its stake to 18.18 per cent in the 18 months following completion. > > Pierre Daher, president of Rotana TV Channels, and the members and representitives from News Corporation including Marc Heller, Gary Davy besides Charlotte Burr, vice president of Star Group and Michael Nelson, CFO of Rotana also attended the meeting. The article there even has a picture of the News Corp. representatives at their meeting with Waleed. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/99 "2010-08-26T19:16:09Z")
> [@Kokopilau](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Somebody did. If he bought it as the result of an IPO or subsequent stock issue, then maybe NewsCorp got the money. But if he bought it from other holders, then THEY got the money. > > > > So if it were shown that Talal bought the stock from other holders, it would change your mind? > > That would be difficult to believe, especially in light of [Fox News parent company News Corp. investing heavily](http://www.tradearabia.com/news/newsdetails.asp?Sn=MEDIA&artid=184910) in one of _his_ media companies, as part of a strategic alliance between the two. > > > [@](#): > > > > The top management of Saudi-based media group Rotana met under the chairmanship of Prince Alwaleed bin Talal bin Abdulaziz Alsaud to discuss the latest developments at Rotana after its strategic alliance with global media giant News Corp. > > > > The meeting, which was attended by Dr Waleed Arab Hashem, vice chairman and Fahad Alsukait, CEO, discussed ways to strengthen the strategic alliance with News Corp. > > > > According to a company statement, Newscorp bought a 9.09 per cent stake in Rotana Group in February to further develop its postion in the media sector in the Middle East and expand it horizon. > > > > Under the terms of the agreement, Rotana said the News Corporation would acquire newly-issued shares in Rotana for $70 million. News Corp has an option to boost its stake to 18.18 per cent in the 18 months following completion. > > > > Pierre Daher, president of Rotana TV Channels, and the members and representitives from News Corporation including Marc Heller, Gary Davy besides Charlotte Burr, vice president of Star Group and Michael Nelson, CFO of Rotana also attended the meeting. > > The article there even has a picture of the News Corp. representatives at their meeting with Waleed. This keeps whizzing right past Bricker - he’s clearly out of his confort zone on the topic. We’re not talking about minority ownership in a closely held mom n’ pop corp. We’re talking the startegic aliance between a worldwide media conglomerate, News Corp., and a regional media congolmerate, Rotana. Talaal didn’t just call up his broker one day and give him a buy order on News Corp. Murdoch and Talaal are aquainted. They’re business partners. The mere suggestion otherwise displays incredible ignorance. This issue is well outside Bricker’s constitutional law wheelhouse and it shows. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286/100 "2010-08-26T19:20:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > in the case of NewsCorp, their “in bed with” amounts to the fact that the guy called his broker and said, “Buy me a couple million shares of NewsCorp.” This is laughable. I sincerely hope you didn’t believe this to be accurate when you wrote it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-and-friends-really-as-dim-witted-as-jon-stewart-makes-it-out-to-be/551286.md?page=6)