# Is Fox News really all that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625 "2012-10-03T21:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2423 "2019-09-13T20:49:59Z")
[Appeals court sides with Seth Rich’s family as lawsuit against Fox News proceeds](https://www.salon.com/2019/09/13/appeals-court-sides-with-seth-richs-family-as-lawsuit-against-fox-news-proceeds-_partner/) “On May 10, in order to bring the untrue story to publication, Butowsky and Zimmerman called Wheeler “to falsely inform him that they had developed an FBI source supposedly confirming” that Seth had been in contact with WikiLeaks. Id. ¶ 69. Then Zimmerman and Butowsky began to put pressure on Wheeler to go on the record as a named source for the Seth‐WikiLeaks story. On May 14, Zimmerman informed Wheeler that President Trump wanted her article published “immediately.”” … “Yet, Fox News instructed Zimmerman to keep those false statements in the article. Moreover, over the following week, various Fox News reporters, by leveraging Wheeler’s connection to the Riches, frequently commented on the story and spread it widely.” … “We have no trouble concluding that—taking their allegations as true—the Riches plausibly alleged what amounted to a campaign of emotional torture. In order to publish a knowingly false article accusing Seth of leaking the DNC emails, Butowsky and Zimmerman needed a reliable source. They settled on a purportedly independent investigator, hired by the Riches. But they had to fabricate that source.” … “Because Fox News and Zimmerman concede in their brief that the pleadings plausibly allege that the Seth‐WikiLeaks articles contained false factual statements, and because the Riches sufficiently allege actual malice, nothing more is needed at this stage.” [2nd Circuit Ruling](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6405445/USCA-Order.pdf) The Richs may never win their case, but the facts are pretty fucking damning against FoxNews. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2424 "2019-09-13T23:23:06Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I think that’s only in Tennessee and some parts of Mississippi and Georgia. I think you missed Alabama and parts of Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2425 "2019-09-14T14:01:01Z")
[This](https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1172666409295470593) is [shit](https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1172493054483345408) that you see in North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2426 "2019-09-15T05:26:13Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I think you missed Alabama and parts of Florida. Have you ever **seen** a Florida panther?! Hubba-hubba! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2427 "2019-09-21T03:10:07Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > Have you ever **seen** a Florida panther?! Hubba-hubba! I’ve heard there are some cougars there. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2428 "2019-09-26T22:22:02Z")
[“IT’S MANAGEMENT BEDLAM”: MADNESS AT FOX NEWS AS TRUMP FACES IMPEACHMENT](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/madness-at-fox-news-as-trump-faces-impeachment-lachlan-murdoch) Lots in there, but this line in the closing para really caught my eye. **Bolding** mine: > [@](#): > > In recent months, Rupert’s oldest son has been holding strategy conversations with Fox executives and anchors about how Fox News should prepare for life after Trump. **Among the powerful voices advising Lachlan that Fox should decisively break with the president is former House speaker Paul Ryan** , who joined the Fox board in March. “Paul is embarrassed about Trump and now he has the power to do something about it,” an executive who’s spoken with Ryan told me. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2429 "2019-09-26T22:59:02Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [“IT’S MANAGEMENT BEDLAM”: MADNESS AT FOX NEWS AS TRUMP FACES IMPEACHMENT](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/madness-at-fox-news-as-trump-faces-impeachment-lachlan-murdoch) > > Lots in there, but this line in the closing para really caught my eye. **Bolding** mine: That’s interesting. I’ve been poking around on Foxnews since this thing blew up. Couldn’t believe my ears when one of their legal experts said what Trump did does qualify as a “bribe”. [He was speaking in terms if this case were to be tried in a court of law] Sorry, can’t find the link. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2430 "2019-09-28T22:08:58Z")
Anecdotes are not evidence and all that confirmation bias stuff, but the number of restaurants, bars, hotels, more, openly playing Fox News is down _dramatically_ since 2016. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2431 "2019-09-29T01:44:08Z")
> [@](#): > > “Paul is embarrassed about Trump and now he has the power to do something about it,” an executive who’s spoken with Ryan told me. Good thing Pelosi isn’t as impotent in her role as Speaker as Ryan was. NOW he has the power? Like he had no power as Speaker? Jeezus. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2432 "2019-09-30T05:36:37Z")
Joe diGenova and Victoria Toensing have been long-time pro-Trump voices on Fox News. Who knows how long they have been on Rudy Giuliani’s payroll “off the books” trying to dog up Biden dirt, but my guess is it overlaps them as supposedly impartial commentators way before diGenova blasted Fox News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano as “a fool” for assessing that Trump had committed a crime during his July 25 call with the Ukrainian president. > **[Frequent Fox Guests diGenova and Toensing Reportedly Teamed Up With Giuliani...](https://www.thedailybeast.com/joe-digenova-and-victoria-toensing-worked-with-rudy-giuliani-to-dig-up-ukraine-dirt-on-joe-biden-report)** > > Fox News cited a U.S. official who said all three were working off the books apart from the administration, and the only person who knew “what they were doing is President Trump.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2433 "2019-09-30T23:22:38Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Good thing Pelosi isn’t as impotent in her role as Speaker as Ryan was. NOW he has the power? Like he had no power as Speaker? Jeezus. He may have a point in the sense that currently the president is a stenographer for the right wing media. Remember when it was bad when the media were stenographers of president Bush? (Pepperidge Farm remembers… 🙂 ) This is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2434 "2019-10-01T16:13:09Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > That’s interesting. I’ve been poking around on Foxnews since this thing blew up. Couldn’t believe my ears when one of their legal experts said what Trump did does qualify as a “bribe”. [He was speaking in terms if this case were to be tried in a court of law] > > Sorry, can’t find the link. Yeah, they’ve been all over the place. They have a handful of commentators that are actually real journalists. Chris Wallace gave one of the toughest interviews I’ve seen on the scandal with White House troll Steven Miller. Shepard Smith is also coming down hard on Trump and the White House. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2435 "2019-10-01T21:02:44Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Yeah, they’ve been all over the place. They have a handful of commentators that are actually real journalists. Chris Wallace gave one of the toughest interviews I’ve seen on the scandal with White House troll Steven Miller. Shepard Smith is also coming down hard on Trump and the White House. There’s a civil war going on at Fox, between the journalists (Wallace, Smith) and the pundits (Hannity, Carlson). Pass the popcorn. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2436 "2019-10-06T15:57:55Z")
[off-topic?] If we treat the lies at Fox News as part of a broader problem, then it may be appropriate to look beyond Fox in this thread. Let me tell you about an experiment I just did inadvertantly. I typed “what crime did trump commit?” into **[Google.com](http://Google.com)**. The first page of hits was [https://www.theguardian.com](https://www.theguardian.com) us-news oct trump-impeachment-latest-… [https://www.vox.com](https://www.vox.com) criminal-laws-trump-barr-giuliani-ukraine [https://www.rollcall.com](https://www.rollcall.com) news whitehouse trump-ukraine-call-legal-d… [https://www.citizensforethics.org](https://www.citizensforethics.org) a-campaign-to-defraud-2 [https://reason.com](https://reason.com) 2019/09/26 did-trump-commit-an-actual-crime-by-s… [https://www.vice.com](https://www.vice.com) en\_us article here-are-7-crimes-trump-might-h… [https://slate.com](https://slate.com) news-and-politics 2019/09 trump-ukraine-campaign… [https://www.nytimes.com](https://www.nytimes.com) 2019/09/25 opinion trump-impeachment [https://www.nbcnews.com](https://www.nbcnews.com) politics trump-impeachment-inquiry cia-s-… I needed(\*) to type the same command into the **[Bing.com](http://Bing.com)** search engine. This yielded: [https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2017/05/17/what-crime-has-trump-has-committed](https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2017/05/17/what-crime-has-trump-has-committed) [https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-what-crimes-did-president-trump-commit](https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-what-crimes-did-president-trump-commit)… [US news | US news | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/04/)… [https://www.quora.com/What-impeachable-crimes-has-Donald-Trump-committed](https://www.quora.com/What-impeachable-crimes-has-Donald-Trump-committed) [Did President Trump Commit a Federal Crime? | Nava Law Firm](https://navalawaz.com/did-president-trump-commit-a-federal-crime) [Sen. Blumenthal: Trump did commit a crime - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWOZRYR8clc) [News - New York Daily News](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/evidence-proves-trump-committed-federal)… (Quora is an unpredictable joke site. In this case, Bing excerpted “President Trump has not committed any crimes what so ever, let along impeachable. It’s a long well known CIA tactic the left is using against Trump.”) _ **Are you as struck as I am by the contrast?** With the exact same query string?_ The TOP hit at Bing was rushlimbaugh, followed by foxnews. I didn’t click on the Youtubes, but navalawaz was a 2017(!) article concluding “No crime.” (\* - _ **Why I needed to switch to Bing:** _ Google doesn’t load the link you click on; it instead loads a Google tracking site which eventually transfers to your request. My Internet connection suffers severe flaws, and all-too-often I cannot get past the Google tracking URL. Hence my switch to Bing.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2437 "2019-10-06T19:46:43Z")
> **[Curtis Ellis: Pelosi hopes public forgets these facts as she rewrites history...](https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/curtis-ellis-nancy-pelosi-rewrites-history-impeachment)** > > House Speaker Nancy Pelosi doesn’t need an airbrush to change history. She has a compliant media to help her. **Pelosi hopes public forgets these facts as she rewrites history with impeachment inquiry** Those “facts’ are 100% either lies or 'whataboutism” or in most cases- \*both. \* Because when your guy is dirty as hell, your only defense is to point out the smudges on the other sides face. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2438 "2019-10-06T22:45:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [off-topic?] > _ **Are you as struck as I am by the contrast?** With the exact same query string?_ The TOP hit at Bing was rushlimbaugh, followed by foxnews. I didn’t click on the Youtubes, but navalawaz was a 2017(!) article concluding “No crime.” Did you run these from incognito mode? If not, it’s possible that the bias is based on prior search history. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2439 "2019-10-07T02:07:59Z")
> [@Running\_with\_Scissors](#): > > Did you run these from incognito mode? If not, it’s possible that the bias is based on prior search history. If I’m not wrong, incognito mode still references past searches - but what it doesn’t do is save current searches / cookies etc ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2440 "2019-10-07T12:20:44Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > If I’m not wrong, incognito mode still references past searches - > but what it doesn’t do is save current searches / cookies etc It basically opens a new environment with no cookies at all (that is, it will pretend to save them, but will not once the window is closed). Existing cookies will also not show up in the new environment, which should prevent new searches from having access to previous ones. ETA: looks like that [depends on the browser](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33620706/what-does-chromes-incognito-mode-do-exactly). Chrome may not be the best in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Fentoine\_Lum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fentoine\_Lum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fentoine_Lum)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2441 "2019-10-07T17:27:40Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > First off, I’m very liberal. > > Second off, I watch almost zero TV news. I catch it at my parents (not necessarily Fox), doctors’ offices, and times like that. I do see a bunch of clips all the time of Fox News programs such as those featuring Hannity and O’Reilly. And sometimes it’s a clip of an ordinary Fox News story, not necessarily anything political. That doesn’t mean, however, that I haven’t watched large chunks of Fox News over the past few years. I interpret at doctors’ offices and often am waiting for patients. For some reason, Fox News is a popular choice to have on. > > I think Hannity and O’Reilly are buffoons, but their programs are obviously and explicitly Conservative in message. One may blame the Fox Network for carrying such crap, but I don’t, really. There’s no hidden agenda, and those shows are fulfilling a demand for that message. In any case, I don’t think those shows taint Fox News itself. > > So, what about Fox News? It’s slogan is, “Fair and Balanced.” People, especially liberals, accuse it of being blatantly pro-Conservative. The thing is, when I’ve watched it, it’s seemed like your typical stupid network news without a whole of lot bias either way. Plus, they have some hot blondes on there, which is nice. > > I find network news to be boring and Conservative as a default setting. No matter what, it seems to reinforce the status quo. Keep calm and carry on, as the Brits used to say. No huge need for change, although there are problems problems problems, and isn’t that interesting? Yesssss, watch. Watch more. Consume more. And… be happy (THX-1138). > > Fox News seems well-produced with competent newscasters (some of whom are hot blondes). It does seem to tell the basic news without too much of a slant; which is to say, it’s slanted toward the status quo–just like all news shows. There is nothing truly excellent about it, yet there doesn’t seem to be anything _exceptionally_ execrable about it either. > > TL;DR: Fox News is Conservative, but all network news shows ares fundamentally Conservative, inasmuch as they subtly and unsubtly validate the status quo. > > What do you think? American corporate state media outlets are what they are post the Clinton FCC deregulation. Back in the 1980s there were 50 some odd companies on the american media landscape, that’s now down to a half dozen multinational corporations who preside over ~90% of the information americans are exposed to. Let me know if you EVER see any of them oppose endless war. Meet the guy who pioneered mass psychological manipulation via the media: > **[Edward Bernays](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays)** > > Edward Louis Bernays (/bɜːrˈneɪz/ bur-NAYZ, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}German: \[bɛʁˈnaɪs\]; November 22, 1891 − March 9, 1995) was an American pioneer in the field of public relations and propaganda, and referred to in his obituary as "the father of public relations". His best-known campaigns include a 1929 effort to promote f Of... ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/2442 "2019-10-07T20:32:56Z")
I realize slogging through 2400 posts that already address your both sides are the same bullshit might be too much to ask, but possibly you might not reply authoritatively to the original post that was made 2400 posts ago if you choose not to. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=121) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=123)