# Is Fox News really all that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625 "2012-10-03T21:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/241 "2013-04-07T14:04:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You submitted a “study” by two persons who have had notorious problems in documenting previous studies, both of whom are politically on the far right. I noted that the study failed to address the issue at hand and your response is to make a personal attack on me. > > Typical, indeed. There was no personal attack. Please stop making false statements, and instead provide cites for your allegations. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/242 "2013-04-07T14:11:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > There was no personal attack. … Accusing someone of debating in bad faith is in fact a personal attack, and really can’t be construed as anything else. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/243 "2013-04-07T14:42:04Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Accusing someone of debating in bad faith is in fact a personal attack, and really can’t be construed as anything else. But…but…but he added “Regards”! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/244 "2013-04-09T18:35:32Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Accusing someone of debating in bad faith is in fact a personal attack, and really can’t be construed as anything else. No, it isn’t. [Cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15453529&postcount=512), [cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13794835&highlight=faith#post13794835). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/245 "2013-04-09T18:49:49Z")
Ah, the “I’m rubber, you’re glue” defense. :rolleyes: For the record, let’s encapsulate the three different posts here: The two from **tomndebb** say that someone isn’t debating in good faith and then go onto make several salient points that lend evidence to this statement and/or defend his point of view. **Shodan** makes the statement in a post that stands almost alone, save for some extra cheese and whine. In summary: It may not be a very nice thing to say but the difference between merely saying it in a petulant vacuum and saying it while providing something of substance, the least of which might be evidence that shows the statement not to be an unfair one, is pretty huge. I do realize that substance is not Shodan’s strong suit, however. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/246 "2013-04-09T23:42:48Z")
Heck, even I can tell that last line was personal. From the clips I’ve seen of Fox News, they seem to assume that as a viewer, I’m some kind of idiot. This does not entice me to view further. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/247 "2013-04-26T08:00:44Z")
The headline, and first line, of the current lead story on [Politics | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/index.html) \*\* California bill would let illegal immigrants serve on juries\*\* The California Assembly passed a bill on Thursday that would make the state the first in the nation to allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty. You get the same headline and first line if you click on it. > **[California bill would let illegal immigrants serve on juries](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-bill-would-let-illegal-immigrants-serve-on-juries)** > > The California Assembly passed a bill on Thursday that would make the state the first in the nation to allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty. It will be interesting to see how long the headline goes unchanged. I don’t know how long it’s been up already. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/248 "2013-04-26T08:10:37Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > The headline, and first line, of the current lead story on [Politics, Policy and Political News & Updates | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/index.html) > \*\* > California bill would let illegal immigrants serve on juries\*\* > The California Assembly passed a bill on Thursday that would make the state the first in the nation to allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty. > > You get the same headline and first line if you click on it. > > [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/26/california-bill-would-let-illegal-immigrants-serve-on-juries/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/26/california-bill-would-let-illegal-immigrants-serve-on-juries/) > > It will be interesting to see how long the headline goes unchanged. I don’t know how long it’s been up already. Wow. How many of their web viewers do they expect not to read even one sentence beyond a headline? I wonder how long this combo will stay posted? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/249 "2013-04-26T08:30:50Z")
Also, that’s an AP story getting pretty wide distribution. The same story elsewhere has the following headline (since it’s so common I’m guessing it’s provided by AP): **Calif. bill would let non-citizens serve on juries** If you search for this exact headline, you get dozens (maybe hundreds) of hits. Every one of the hits for the “illegal immigrants” headlines (well, I looked at the first two pages) cites Fox as the source, including Stormfront. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/250 "2013-04-26T08:36:16Z")
Actually, this raises a question for me. [Fox _Nation_](http://nation.foxnews.com/non-citizens/2013/04/25/calif-bill-would-let-non-citizens-serve-juries?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FoxNation+(Fox+Nation)) (not Fox _News_) has the accurate version of the headline. Does anybody know what the difference between the two is? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/251 "2013-04-26T21:46:38Z")
The article has apparently aged off of the politics breaking news page, but it’s still on the Fox News website, with the same headline. > **[California bill would let illegal immigrants serve on juries](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-bill-would-let-illegal-immigrants-serve-on-juries)** > > The California Assembly passed a bill on Thursday that would make the state the first in the nation to allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/252 "2013-05-03T13:16:30Z")
Another month of playing, “Does Foxnews report the jobs numbers on the front page of their site like every single legitimate news source?” Answer: Unemployment went down, so no. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/253 "2013-05-03T13:35:19Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Actually, this raises a question for me. [Fox _Nation_](http://nation.foxnews.com/non-citizens/2013/04/25/calif-bill-would-let-non-citizens-serve-juries?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FoxNation+(Fox+Nation)) (not Fox _News_) has the accurate version of the headline. Does anybody know what the difference between the two is? Fox Nation is a separate web operation, rather than an adjunct to a TV channel, which is more opinion-oriented. In less politic terms, it’s a forum for the cranky to whine about negroes, gays, Hispanics and liberals in a manner that might undermine whatever credibility the channel has left if they reproduced it there. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/254 "2013-05-03T14:05:29Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Another month of playing, “Does Foxnews report the jobs numbers on the front page of their site like every single legitimate news source?” > > Answer: Unemployment went down, so no. That’s pretty amazing. I figured it had to be there somewhere, even if just a headline link. But from what I can see there isn’t a single mention of the unemployment report anywhere no the main page… At least they have to put their stock ticker up, so maybe eventually it will sink in that Obama isn’t killing the economy. Of course they also have this headline on the main page: “Does a Rally Still Count if it’s led by Defensive Stocks?” So maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/255 "2013-05-03T16:26:51Z")
You should check it out when the numbers are bad. Then it gets a “Breaking News” ticker. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/256 "2013-05-03T17:36:01Z")
They added a front-page headline about the jobs numbers! Here it: “Does positive jobs report tell full employment story?” They report, you decide! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/257 "2013-05-03T17:50:08Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > They added a front-page headline about the jobs numbers! > > Here it: “Does positive jobs report tell full employment story?” > > They report, you decide! Cavuto Mark sighted! ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/258 "2013-05-03T18:07:07Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > First off, I’m very liberal. > > Second off, I watch almost zero TV news. I catch it at my parents (not necessarily Fox), doctors’ offices, and times like that. I do see a bunch of clips all the time of Fox News programs such as those featuring Hannity and O’Reilly. And sometimes it’s a clip of an ordinary Fox News story, not necessarily anything political. That doesn’t mean, however, that I haven’t watched large chunks of Fox News over the past few years. I interpret at doctors’ offices and often am waiting for patients. For some reason, Fox News is a popular choice to have on. > > I think Hannity and O’Reilly are buffoons, but their programs are obviously and explicitly Conservative in message. One may blame the Fox Network for carrying such crap, but I don’t, really. There’s no hidden agenda, and those shows are fulfilling a demand for that message. In any case, I don’t think those shows taint Fox News itself. > > So, what about Fox News? It’s slogan is, “Fair and Balanced.” People, especially liberals, accuse it of being blatantly pro-Conservative. The thing is, when I’ve watched it, it’s seemed like your typical stupid network news without a whole of lot biass either way. Plus, they have some hot blondes on there, which is nice. > > I find network news to be boring and Conservative as a default setting. No matter what, it seems to reinforce the status quo. Keep calm and carry on, as the Brits used to say. No huge need for change, although there are problems problems problems, and isn’t that interesting? Yesssss, watch. Watch more. Consume more. And… be happy (THX-1138). > > Fox News seems well-produced with competent newscasters (some of whom are hot blondes). It does seem to tell the basic news without too much of a slant; which is to say, it’s slanted toward the status quo–just like all news shows. There is nothing truly excellent about it, yet there doesn’t seem to be anything _exceptionally_ execrable about it either. > > TL;DR: Fox News is Conservative, but all network news shows ares fundamentally Conservative, inasmuch as they subtly and unsubtly validate the status quo. > > What do you think? My impression of Fox News, and I am responding to the OP w/o having read other posts, so not influenced by other posts. I don’t live in the US and haven’t for more than 10 years. When I did, I did not watch Fox News. I don’t remember why, just some vague idea it was sort of tabloidy and right wing. Then, I lived in places for 9 years where I didn’t get Fox News at all, so I never saw it. Then last summer, I was in a place for 2 months that had it. It was before the election in November, and much of the ‘news’ was about the election. My impression was that Fox News, so called ‘news,’ was 24/7 free campaign advertisement for Romney. Nearly everything was about how great the Republican candidate was and how bad the Democratic candidate was;there was very little coverage of international events, unless they were directly linked to the above. This wasn’t ‘news.’ it was campaigning, outright and direct, imo, for the Republican party. And that is just the ‘news;’ I didn’t even watch any of the discussion programs. It was sickening. So, imo, yes, Fox News is really that bad. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/259 "2013-05-04T03:16:49Z")
I was thinking on posting this on the Republican ideas thread on the pit, but it fits better here, are they trying to fill the void left by the closing of Weekly World News? > **[Ridiculous Fox News Claim of the Day: Reason Caused the Holocaust](https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/05/national-day-of-reason-backlash-penny-nance-blames-the-holocaust-on-reason-on-fox-news.html)** > > Anthony Foxx, the mayor of Charlotte and Obama's pick for the next Secretary of Transportation, issued two city proclamations yesterday. One of them... > [@](#): > > Anthony Foxx, the mayor of Charlotte and Obama’s pick for the next Secretary of Transportation, issued two city proclamations yesterday. One of them recognized the National Day of Prayer; the other one declared the day to be a Day of Reason. The second proclamation noted that the country was founded on the principles of reason and that “it is the duty and responsibility of every citizen to promote the development and application of reason.” Even though we have no evidence that Mayor Foxx was taking a passive-aggressive swipe at the folks at Fox News, they decided to take it as an affront anyway, bringing on Penny Nance, the CEO of Concerned Women for America, to worry that once you start using reason, next thing you know, you’re committing a mass genocide and starting a world war. > > The relevant quote: > > [QUOTE=Fox News] > “You know the Age of Enlightenment and Reason gave way to moral relativism. And moral relativism is what led us all the way down the dark path to the Holocaust.” While my reasonable side suggests I shouldn’t argue with fools, I can’t help but point out that anti-Semitic institutions like the Spanish Inquisition and the myth of blood libel long predate the age of enlightenment. Then again, that’s using reason, and we know how Nance feels about that. As Jon Stewart famously demonstrated, Nazis are Fox News’ catch-all villain, used to denounce anything they dislike: being liberal, supporting Obama, criticizing Fox News for its misinformation. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/260 "2013-05-04T03:29:51Z")
I’m glad _someone_ has finally stripped the veil off reason, exposing it to be the tool of the Devil it really is! Kudos to Fox for standing against it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=14)