# Is Fox News really all that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625 "2012-10-03T21:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/261 "2013-09-24T19:21:28Z")
Fox News ran this story: [One man’s ObamaCare nightmare](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/24/one-man-obamacare-nightmare/) It starts off “Andy and Amy Mangione of Louisville, Ky. and their two boys are just the kind of people who should be helped by ObamaCare. But they recently got a nasty surprise in the mail.” And it ends as you would expect: a hard-working, typical American family being screwed by the evils of Obamacare. One thing which seems relevant to the piece is that Mr. Mangione’s is [the Vice President, Government Relations, for AMAC](http://amac.us/author/andrew-mangione/page/2). The AMAC is the “conservative alternative” to AARP. Mr. Mangione is a lobbyist who is lobbying AGAINST Obamacare! In fact, the insurance company which sent him the letter is a company where he was previously as an executive! At no time in the video nor in the accompanying story is this even mentioned. That’s pretty unethical, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/262 "2013-09-24T19:55:30Z")
Oh, and Kentucky is investigating the letter as being “misleading.” [USA Today](http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/09/05/ky-probes-humana-letter-on-insurance-renewals/2774179/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/263 "2013-10-18T09:43:06Z")
[‘I’m not saying she deserved to be raped but…’](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/17/fox-news-guest-blames-missouri-teen-im-not-saying-she-deserved-to-be-raped-but/) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/264 "2013-10-18T10:37:22Z")
I’m still waiting for those who claim FoxNews is middle-of-the-road to provide some examples of media to the right of it. Weekly World News, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/265 "2013-10-18T10:44:12Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > [‘I’m not saying she deserved to be raped but…’](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/17/fox-news-guest-blames-missouri-teen-im-not-saying-she-deserved-to-be-raped-but/) I am no fan of Fox, but that hardly makes your point. The quote is from a defense attorney, (whether of one of the two boys involved is not stated), and the Fox News host immediately jumps on his claim as bullshit. For once, someone in Fox News was acting responsibly. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/266 "2013-10-18T13:44:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I am no fan of Fox, but that hardly makes your point. > The quote is from a defense attorney, (whether of one of the two boys involved is not stated), and the Fox News host immediately jumps on his claim as bullshit. For once, someone in Fox News was acting responsibly. This is a big deal–we’ve found something too shameless even for Fox News. Apparently, saying that a 14-year-old rape victim was asking for it is a bridge too far. We may have found the summit of Bullshit Mountain. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/267 "2013-10-18T16:19:02Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I am no fan of Fox, but that hardly makes your point. > The quote is from a defense attorney, (whether of one of the two boys involved is not stated), and the Fox News host immediately jumps on his claim as bullshit. For once, someone in Fox News was acting responsibly. That was my take as well. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/268 "2013-10-18T16:50:29Z")
As a conservative, there is a clear and undeniable rightward lean to Fox News. That being said, I disagree that they lie or are incapable of journalism anymore than other news sources. MSNBC is just as bad on the left, and all of the other mainstream news sources skew left. My major gripe with Fox News is the stories they choose to cover. I remember when Benghazi came out, they covered that ALL DAY LONG for a few days. If you only watched Fox News, you would have gotten the impression that Benghazi was ripping the country apart and that impeachment was nigh. And that clip in the PA diner last year is also a good example. I don’t know if it was malicious or not, but the reporter had the story in his head: there would be supporters on both sides (like in most diners), so its a close race here in PA, and going to be a close election! The suspense is mounting! Stay tuned through election day! Well, it didn’t work out, and instead of being able to adjust on the fly, the reporter (in no small part due to his probable bias) simply stuck to his script. That’s piss poor, but not an example of a blatant lie. Fair and Balanced? No, but that’s just puffery. Your local car dealership won’t always give you the best deal on a new car purchase, but that’s always been an accepted form of advertisement. The biggest compliment I have with Fox or MSNBC is that their bias shows that a normal politician can’t get past his talking points. Get him out of his comfort zone and challenge his boilerplate, and he/she usually folds. O’Reilly is typically very good at this. I like that better than the old school journalism where the pols got away with saying what they wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/269 "2013-10-18T16:57:27Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > As a conservative, there is a clear and undeniable rightward lean to Fox News. That being said, I disagree that they lie or are incapable of journalism anymore than other news sources. MSNBC is just as bad on the left, and all of the other mainstream news sources skew left. Not really, as I pointed before on post #203 FOX even has a policy rule/advice to their reporters to use false equivalency and misleading info when climate change is the subject. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15892484&postcount=203](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15892484&postcount=203) ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/270 "2013-10-18T17:30:53Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m still waiting for those who claim FoxNews is middle-of-the-road to provide some examples of media to the right of it. Weekly World News, perhaps? Has anybody said that Fox is centrist? I think the argument is that Fox is no less biased than the other MSM. > [@tomndebb](#): > > I am no fan of Fox, but that hardly makes your point. > The quote is from a defense attorney, (whether of one of the two boys involved is not stated), and the Fox News host immediately jumps on his claim as bullshit. For once, someone in Fox News was acting responsibly. Don’t ruin the narrative. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/271 "2013-10-18T18:09:10Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Has anybody said that Fox is centrist? I think the argument is that Fox is no less biased than the other MSM. As discussed in a different thread, the bigger issue is that FOX is not only showing the normal bias of political favoritism, but they also have bias against science and factual information on many subjects. Generally speaking, FOX is doing the reverse of what Thomas Jefferson was expecting to see. With FOX there is less of a chance to see people that are well informed so they can be trusted with their own government. > [@Deeg](#): > > Don’t ruin the narrative. Do you know what “for once” means? ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/272 "2013-10-18T18:30:38Z")
[This is old, but deserves to be posted again - Fox News photoshopping the pictures so that their political enemies look ugly](http://meathaus.com/wp-content/images/fox-news-shitty-photoshop.jpg) [Fox news reports on, and does not back down on, a story falsely claiming a transgender student at a specific school is harassing girls in the bathroom. This story was fabricated by a hate group.](http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10/15/fox-nation-touts-fake-story-about-transgender-s/196436) How about [Fox news claims a group that “homosexuality gave us Hitler”, ignoring the fact that the holocaust targeted homosexuals, too, is just a “traditional christian ministry”.](http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10/15/fox-news-whitewashes-american-family-associatio/196429) I’m sorry, but given this context, how is Fox not anything but a hate group? ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/273 "2013-10-18T18:45:59Z")
[Hannity Fact Check](http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/) The standard defense is usually that he is a commentator not a reporter. I suppose you could also say that he didn’t say anything wrong, it was his guests who made those statements. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/274 "2013-10-18T18:51:41Z")
Honestly, at this point, I have to ask of anyone who thinks “Fox isn’t that bad”, or “The rest of the media is just as bad” - Why do you think the support of hate groups that want to deport all Muslims, ban religious freedoms, and call for the targeting and harassment of LGBT people, including _specifically targeting individual children_ is something that can be waved away as “political differences”? What has MSNBC ever done that’s ANYWHERE near as bad? (not going to mention CNN, because Nancy Grace is a boil on the ass of humanity) ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/275 "2013-10-18T19:42:22Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As discussed in a different thread, the bigger issue is that FOX is not only showing the normal bias of political favoritism, but they also have bias against science and factual information on many subjects. Yes, we’ve discussed this. Fox appears to be heavily biased against AGW which is your _cause célèbre_. However in other areas (like reporting on presidential elections) they appear to be less biased. That, in my book, makes them no more biased overall. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/276 "2013-10-18T19:50:08Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Yes, we’ve discussed this. Fox appears to be heavily biased against AGW which is your _cause célèbre_. However in other areas (like reporting on presidential elections) they appear to be less biased. That, in my book, makes them no more biased overall. Any response to how biased they are with respect to targeted harassment, photoshopping pictures, and defending hate groups, as shown above? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/277 "2013-10-18T19:59:34Z")
I don’t doubt that Fox photoshopped pictures; they _are_ biased, after all. That can be countered by the selective audio that other media played during the whole Zimmerman fiasco. They are _all_ biased and they all have an agenda. Fox’s bias happens to run counter to the bias of the SDMB so they get extra scorn. I’m not interested in anecdotes. I posted a couple of independent studies (one of them a meta study) that indicated that Fox news is _less biased_ than the other MSM in certain topics. GIGO posted a study showing Fox to be heavily biased against AGW. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/278 "2013-10-18T20:02:41Z")
I see. You think deliberately attempting to target children for harassment, threats, and violence is an anecdote not worth commenting on, and that defending hate groups is less than other media do. What hate groups have MSNBC defended? What subset of Americans does MSNBC think deserve to be deported, or are all terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/279 "2013-10-18T20:04:11Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Yes, we’ve discussed this. Fox appears to be heavily biased against AGW which is your _cause célèbre_. However in other areas (like reporting on presidential elections) they appear to be less biased. That, in my book, makes them no more biased overall. Calling it my _cause célèbre_ does not change the fact that FOX has orders for their [del]minions[/del] reporters to misinform their viewers. There is still a big difference between bias and deception. You are even ignorant on what I have a beef with FOX, the record on the SDMB shows that a lot of the issues started with the “Moon Hoax” show that FOX aired that misled many people and posters. (If you think it was just their entertainment division who did that, a few years ago Gerardo in a FOX interview still made a reference to it and not to disparage that conspiracy theory, it still remains a useful one to discredit a successful government program) Also what \*\*Karrius \*\*pointed out supports what I also said about other factual things being misrepresented by FOX. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/280 "2013-10-18T20:14:19Z")
And we should also mention the FOX misleading (one would have to say that they are lying the longer they do not post a mea culpa in their site) coverage of the Healt care reform. > **[Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare](https://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/)** > > UPDATE I re-reported a Fox News segment on Obamacare -- it was appallingly easy to see how it misleads the audience > [@](#): > > Finally, I called Robbie and Tina Robison from Franklin, Tenn. Robbie is self-employed as a Christian youth motivational speaker. (You can see his work here.) On Hannity, the couple said that they, too, were recently notified that their Blue Cross policy would be expiring for lack of ACA compliance. They told Hannity that the replacement plans Blue Cross was offering would come with a rate increase of 50 percent or even 75 percent, and that the new offerings would contain all sorts of benefits they don’t need, like maternity care, pediatric care, prenatal care and so forth. Their kids are grown and moved out, so why should they be forced to pay extra for a health plan with superfluous features? > > When I spoke to Robbie, he said he and Tina have been paying a little over $600 a month for their plan, about $10,000 a year. And the ACA-compliant policy will cost 50-75 percent more? They said this information was related to them by their insurance agent. > > Had they shopped on the exchange yet, I asked? No, Tina said, nor would they. They oppose Obamacare and want nothing to do with it. Fair enough, but they should know that I found a plan for them for, at most, $3,700 a year, a 63 percent less than their current bill. It might cover things that they don’t need, but so does every insurance policy. > > It’s true that we don’t know for sure whether certain ills conservatives have warned about will occur once Obamacare is fully enacted. For example, will we truly have the same freedom to choose a physician that we have now? Will a surplus of insured patients require a scaling back (or “rationing,” as some call it) of provided healthcare services? Will doctors be able to spend as much time with patients? These are all valid, unanswered questions. The problem is that people like Sean Hannity have decided to answer them now, without evidence. Or worse, with fake evidence. > > I don’t doubt that these six individuals believe that Obamacare is a disaster; but none of them had even visited the insurance exchange. And some of them appear to have taken actions (Paul Cox, for example) based on a general pessimistic belief about Obamacare. He’s certainly entitled to do so, but Hannity is not entitled to point to Paul’s behavior as an “Obamacare train wreck story” and maintain any credibility that he might have as a journalist. > > Strangely, the recent shutdown was based almost entirely on a small percentage of Congress’s belief that Obamacare, as Ted Cruz puts it, “is destroying America.” Cruz has rarely given us an example of what he’s talking about. That’s because the best he can do is what Hannity did—exploit people’s ignorance and falsely point to imaginary boogeymen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=15)