# Is Fox News really all that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625 "2012-10-03T21:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/301 "2013-10-19T03:13:06Z")
Sean Hannity did a show recently with several people whose lives have been negatively affected by Obamacare. A writer for Slate saw it and thought it sounded really fishy, so he contacted the people who were on it and interviewed them himself. One guy said his small business was hurt so he had to reduce the hours of his workers and make them part-time. > [@](#): > > First I spoke with Paul Cox of Leicester, N.C. He and his wife Michelle had lamented to Hannity that because of Obamacare, they can’t grow their construction business and they have kept their employees below a certain number of hours, so that they are part-timers. > > Obamacare has no effect on businesses with 49 employees or less. But in our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees. Why the cutback on his workforce? “Well,” he said, “I haven’t been forced to do so, it’s just that I’ve chosen to do so. I have to deal with increased costs.” What costs? And how, I asked him, is any of it due to Obamacare? There was a long pause, after which he said he’d call me back. He never did. Two other couples said that their current plans weren’t compliant with the ACA rules so they were being discontinued and a replacement policy would be 50 or 75% more expensive. Interviewing them turned up that neither couple had checked for rates under Obamacare. The Slate writer found plans that were better than what they currently had for 60+% cheaper than what they were paying currently. Hannity’s entire show was a complete pile of B.S. It was all lies. > **[Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare](https://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008)** > > UPDATE I re-reported a Fox News segment on Obamacare -- it was appallingly easy to see how it misleads the audience ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/302 "2013-10-19T03:32:28Z")
Psst, posts #273 and #279, yeah, I also missed the early one. :smack: But we did quote. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/303 "2013-10-19T03:58:07Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > IMO you’re pulling out specific examples that you know of, not remembering any incidences in your media, and calling Fox biased. Dan Rather backed a bogus report because it attacked Bush. And he lost his job over it. > [@](#): > > IMO Zimmerman got shafted by the media with the stupid “white hispanic” nonsense and they way he was portrayed. And when news about the edited audio tape broke, the producer responsible for the misleading edit was fired. I’ve looked around for stories about Fox News personnel being fired for filing wildly inaccurate, if not outright slanderous, stories. The only story i could find was one about a pair of reporters who were fired for reporting (truthfully, as near as I can figure) about contaminated milk. Plenty of examples of wildly inaccurate and/or slanderous stories being reported on Fox News of course, just nothing about Fox ever doing anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/304 "2013-10-19T04:34:32Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Are you serious? > Without knowing the accuracy and content of those stories there’s absolutely no proof from your example that they’re equivalent - or did I just get whooshed? Sorry, I thought that equating the prominence and influence of Ward Churchill (whom nobody would have ever heard of if Fox hadn’t devoted hour after hour to him) with that of the sitting president made the sarcasm obvious. But that’s what Fox (and right-wing media in general) does. They find some nobody on the fringe left, and act like what he says or does is as important and representative as what McConnell or Boehner says, which is what MSNBC concentrates on. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/305 "2013-10-19T05:51:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I am hardly an expert on “experts,” but the one time I was interviewed on TV, the interviewer had no idea what I was going to say and simply asked questions. There was neither a vetting process nor a preparatory interview. The “one time.” I linked to several hundred videos of this guy as the Fox News go-to guy. Maybe he never said anything as controversial as this but it isn’t like he was some unknown quantity who went rogue or something. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/306 "2013-10-19T05:54:21Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I posted cites to two independent studies that show Fox to be less biased. I posted several polls and studies that showed that Fox News viewers were more misinformed or uninformed about news than viewers of other news shows, people who get their news from a Comedy network or people who don’t pay much attention to the news at all. Why do you think that is? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/307 "2013-10-19T11:18:30Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Dan Rather backed a bogus report because it attacked Bush. Dan Rather backed a dubious report that turned out after further investigation to be fraudulent. The person who gave the network the documents _lied_ to Rather about how he got them. The end result? Even though it could barely even be said to have been Rather’s fault, he apologized, the network retracted the story completely, and _he lost his job over it_. This is such a completely failed comparison that I barely even know where to start. > [@Deeg](#): > > I’ll respond to just this one. > > Please, show me a cite of an independent study. The only one I’ve seen is the one that GIGO posted but it was limited to just AGW. I posted cites to two independent studies that show Fox to be less biased. [http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=273487&p=1061895260#post1061895260](http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=273487&p=1061895260#post1061895260) > [@Stagnant](#): > > The “majority” lean left. And yet you pick MSNBC, more commonly known as the worst of the bunch. Nice move! > > Anyways, here’s a few studies: > > [http://woods.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/files/Global-Warming-Fox-News.pdf](http://woods.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/files/Global-Warming-Fox-News.pdf) \<- Fox news viewers less informed on global warming, more likely to deny scientific consensus > [http://woods.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/files/Global-Warming-Fox-News.pdf](http://woods.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/files/Global-Warming-Fox-News.pdf) \<- Fox news viewers considerably more likely to be misinformed about the PPACA > [http://firstread.nbcnews.com/\_news/2009/08/19/4431138-first-thoughts-obamas-good-bad-news](http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2009/08/19/4431138-first-thoughts-obamas-good-bad-news) \<- Fox news viewers WILDLY more likely to believe complete misinformation about the PPACA > [http://www.comm.ohio-state.edu/kgarrett/MediaMosqueRumors.pdf](http://www.comm.ohio-state.edu/kgarrett/MediaMosqueRumors.pdf) \<- Fox news far more likely to believe false rumors about the Manhattan Mosque > [http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/IraqMedia\_Oct03/IraqMedia\_Oct03\_rpt.pdf](http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/IraqMedia_Oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_rpt.pdf) \<- Fox news viewers waaaaaaayyyy more misinformed on the Iraq war than anyone else (but this is old news) > [http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/dec10/Misinformation\_Dec10\_rpt.pdf](http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/dec10/Misinformation_Dec10_rpt.pdf) \<- Fox news viewers in 2010 pretty much more misinformed on every issue that mattered to voters in the election than _any_ other news station. Including MSNBC. > [http://www.politifact.com/texas/article/2011/jun/22/jon-stewart-fox-news-politifact/](http://www.politifact.com/texas/article/2011/jun/22/jon-stewart-fox-news-politifact/) \<- Fox won lie of the year two years in a row, and has lied over a WHOLE bunch of other things. > > So yeah. Take that crap and _stuff it_. And you know what? At the end of the Libya debacle, after the dust settles, I am willing to bet money that Fox viewers will be the most misinformed on that too. > > So again, I ask the question: _why is it that the only conservative network is, hands down, the most dishonest one?_ _Why. The. (_)(_)(_)(_). Can’t. You. Do. Better?!_ Courtesy of, well, me. Fox is easily the worst network on TV nowadays. The only sources popularly used that could be said to be worse are talk radio like Limbaugh and sites like PrisonPlanet and Infowars. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/308 "2013-10-19T20:00:34Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Dan Rather backed a dubious report that turned out after further investigation to be fraudulent. The person who gave the network the documents _lied_ to Rather about how he got them. The end result? Even though it could barely even be said to have been Rather’s fault, he apologized, the network retracted the story completely, and _he lost his job over it_. This is such a completely failed comparison that I barely even know where to start. . . . And the underlying facts were true! Bush did fail to show up for his Reserves assignment. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/309 "2013-10-19T20:40:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > And the underlying facts were true! Bush did fail to show up for his Reserves assignment. Is the reward still standing for anybody in his ANG unit who saw him show up? [http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/14/bush.texans/](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/14/bush.texans/) ETA: nice to see that Laura thought the documents were “probably” forgeries. Credit where it’s due, that was Rove’s best stunt ever. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/310 "2013-10-19T22:14:14Z")
Using Hannity or O"Reilly as an example of incorrect reporting is not really fair, as they are political entertainment programs and not news. Or if you think that’s fair, then the proper comparison is not against Dan Rather, but Pierce Morgan, Lawrence O’Donnell, John Stewart, Rachel Maddow, and Ed Schultz. They’re the ‘other’ media’s equivalent to Hannity and O’Reilly. What would be fair would be to show examples of egregious bias from Shepard Smith, who is the actual news anchor at Fox. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/311 "2013-10-19T22:48:28Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Using Hannity or O"Reilly as an example of incorrect reporting is not really fair, as they are political entertainment programs and not news. Or if you think that’s fair, then the proper comparison is not against Dan Rather, but Pierce Morgan, Lawrence O’Donnell, John Stewart, Rachel Maddow, and Ed Schultz. They’re the ‘other’ media’s equivalent to Hannity and O’Reilly. > > What would be fair would be to show examples of egregious bias from Shepard Smith, who is the actual news anchor at Fox. There was once a time when Shepard Smith disparaged the climate change deniers, but that was the exception. Currently the bias in a subject like Climate Change has been a reflection of what other mainstream sources deal with it, by not talking much about it. However when the subject is talked about it, FOX is still bad. In the previous discussion I posted several examples of FOX news proper (and even FOX business) just reporting climate change denial with extreme false equivalencies. > **[Fox News’s Attacks on Climate Science Now Include The Denial of Basic Physics](https://www.desmog.com/2012/03/12/fox-news-s-attacks-climate-science-now-include-denial-basic-physics/)** > > There was a time, believe it or not, when Fox New’s Shepard Smith openly mocked global warming deniers—seriously comparing them to a man who got stuck in a portable toilet. (Hat tip to D.R. Tucker for showing me this clip.) But since then, Fox... > [@](#): > > There was a time, believe it or not, when Fox New’s Shepard Smith openly mocked global warming deniers—seriously comparing them to a man who got stuck in a portable toilet. (Hat tip to D.R. Tucker for showing me this clip.) But since then, Fox has become a veritable misinformation machine on this topic. > > One way the station sows doubt about the scientific consensus on climate change is through constantly putting climate “skeptics” on the air. A study by American University’s Lauren Feldman and her co-authors, for example, found that in the period of 2007-2008, 46 percent of Fox’s guests discussing global warming were climate change doubters. By contrast, only 40 percent of guests defended the scientific consensus. > > That’s not just phony “balance”–that’s coverage strongly tilted towards unreality. And if anything, I suspect that Fox has grown still more unbalanced during the Obama years. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/312 "2013-10-19T22:57:26Z")
Since this came up again, I will [repost this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15719563&postcount=133): > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Fox News really is all that bad…For Science in particular. > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\*Is News Corp. Failing Science? \*\*([.pdf](http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/global_warming/Is-News-Corp-Failing-Science.pdf)) > > © 2012 Union of Concerned Scientists > > > > UCS’s analysis finds that: > > > > • Over a recent six-month period, 93 percent of Fox News Channel’s representations of climate science were misleading (37 out of 40 instances). > > > > UCS’s examination finds that the misleading citations include broad dismissals of human-caused climate change, disparaging comments about individual scientists, rejections of climate science as a body of knowledge, and cherry picking of data. Fox News Channel citations also included several discussions in which misleading claims dominated accurate ones. Furthermore, much of this coverage denigrated climate science by either promoting distrust in scientists and scientific institutions or placing acceptance of climate change in an ideological, rather than fact-based, context. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/313 "2013-10-19T22:58:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Using Hannity or O"Reilly as an example of incorrect reporting is not really fair, as they are political entertainment programs and not news. Or if you think that’s fair, then the proper comparison is not against Dan Rather, but Pierce Morgan, Lawrence O’Donnell, John Stewart, Rachel Maddow, and Ed Schultz. They’re the ‘other’ media’s equivalent to Hannity and O’Reilly. I think Stewart would slaughter Hannity and O’Reilly in accuracy, even including his jokes. Maddow bends over backwards to be fair (but admittedly not balanced, though at least she is honest about her liberal bias), and corrects any mistakes on the air as soon as she finds them. There’s no comparison between her and a guy like Hannity, who will repeat discredited stories for YEARS. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/314 "2013-10-19T23:12:50Z")
BTW, I still think that when the day comes that opinion shows like Hannity drop the omnipresent “FOX NEWS” logo, then that will be the day I would think it is no longer fair to point at shows like Hannity as examples of how bad FOX news is. There is no clear separation of what is opinion or just plain news, and even on the opinion shows, the bumpers used in those shows also claim “fair and balanced” and “we report, you decide”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/315 "2013-10-19T23:24:19Z")
Am I alone in thinking that Sean Hannity has the most punchable face ever? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/316 "2013-10-19T23:55:33Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Am I alone in thinking that Sean Hannity has the most punchable face ever? Nope. I’m on the record on this very board as stating, nay, promising my future constituents that despite having only seen snippets of him on Jon Stewart’s show, when I’m God-Emperor of the Universe I shall appoint an Imperial Guy Who Punches Sean Hannity In His Goddamned Mouth Whenever It Looks Like He Might Speak. Dental plan, decent bennies, job security out the ass. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/317 "2013-10-20T00:06:24Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Nope. I’m on the record on this very board as stating, nay, promising my future constituents that despite having only seen snippets of him on Jon Stewart’s show, when I’m God-Emperor of the Universe I shall appoint an Imperial Guy Who Punches Sean Hannity In His Goddamned Mouth Whenever It Looks Like He Might Speak. Dental plan, decent bennies, job security out the ass. Throw in [my own personal ball washer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T8Gxk7vbec) and I’ll take the job. ---
**Author:** ![Ograbme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Ograbme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ograbme)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/318 "2013-10-20T13:16:03Z")
Hannity before the shutdown: > [@](#): > > Republicans right now, if they really want to - not just symbolically - if they want to repeal health care, Dr. Carson, Obamacare, **they’ve got to shut the government down**. And be labeled ‘the full faith and credit of the United States is in jeopardy.’ Which is not true. But if they really want to do that, that’s what it will take.\*\* I want them to do it\*\*. Hannity during the shutdown: > [@](#): > > Welcome to the Harry-Barry shutdown show…Who wants this? This is dysfunctional. This is the worst of the worst. ---
**Author:** ![Ograbme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Ograbme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ograbme)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/319 "2013-10-20T13:18:09Z")
double post ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/320 "2013-10-20T15:34:48Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Throw in [my own personal ball washer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T8Gxk7vbec) and I’ll take the job. Woah, woah, dude. I’m getting a _lot_ of applications. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=17)