# Is Fox News really all that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625 "2012-10-03T21:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/381 "2014-03-28T13:51:14Z")
This issue always amuses me. In a vast sea of left of center broadcast news those on the left will froth at the mouth about the one island of Fox news. I see it in my own family the hypocrisy the left has on this. I have a nephew who spews and rants about how awful Fox is and it’s bias and such. Yet you talk to him about MSNBC and their bias his answer is along the lines of. “Well yes but everyone needs to be exposed to alternate viewpoints” So to him alternate viewpoints are good as long as they are the ones he approves of. I suspect that is the general feeling on the left. Alternate viewpoints are ok, as long as it is the ones they approve of. Fox they not like therefore is an unauthorized alternate viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/382 "2014-03-28T13:58:50Z")
The reason Lefties seem to froth at the mouth about Fox “News” is that those who watch Fox “News” vehemently believe in what they are fed there, and that it is obvious that misinformation is not good. (And that it is obvious that misinformation is what’s being dished out.) ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/383 "2014-03-28T14:15:20Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > This issue always amuses me. > > In a vast sea of left of center broadcast news those on the left will froth at the mouth about the one island of Fox news. > > I see it in my own family the hypocrisy the left has on this. > > I have a nephew who spews and rants about how awful Fox is and it’s bias and such. Yet you talk to him about MSNBC and their bias his answer is along the lines of. “Well yes but everyone needs to be exposed to alternate viewpoints” . As I said a few months ago, bias is not the problem. I agree that MSNBC is as biased as Fox, although MSNBC doesn’t constantly claim to be Fair and Balanced, like Fox does. MSNBC is Fair and Unbalanced. Fox is Unfair and Unbalanced. The bias would be OK if it only manifested itself in story selection, like on MSNBC. I have no problem with MSNBC talking about Christie every night, and Fox talking about Obamacare every night, although I don’t know why they think people want to hear it every night. But Fox goes far beyond just bias. It makes shit up, and it deliberately takes things out of context. MSNBC doesn’t do that. They make mistakes, but they correct them, usually within a day or two. If a Republican leader makes some verbal flub, Maddow might note it in a humor segment, but she’ll acknowledge that it was just a misstatement, laugh, and move on. Fox will take four words out of a speech, remove all context, and spend the next several months claiming it is the foundation of all liberal thought, e.g. “You didn’t build that.” Disclaimer — again, I’m talking about the flagship, primetime shows — O’Riley, Hannity, and Kelly on Fox, and Matthews, Hayes, and Maddow on MSNBC. I don’t watch the others. ---
**Author:** ![SandMan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7993a0/32.png) [@SandMan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandMan1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/384 "2014-03-28T15:25:35Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Your statements exhibit a common argumentative fallacy (inadvertently, I’m sure): they are all correct in their individual facts, but by failing to state or acknowledge key information, the overall impression they convey is quite wrong – that impression being that, meh, all news channels have their issues, and Fox is no different. That establishes a false equivalency. > > Fox is a news channel like no other. It has an explicit and overriding agenda to be the propaganda arm of the Republican Party, and it has no qualms about falsifying the news to do it, either explicitly or by omission. They have even sued for the legal right to falsify the news. This goes back to the original political machinations of Rupert Murdoch and the recruitment of Republican hatchet man Roger Ailes to run the network. It’s been well documented, for instance, that Ailes every morning would issue the talking points for the day that all “news” anchors would be required to hammer into the viewers’ fertile brains. I’m not even going to bother providing any links as the examples of Fox propagandizing are boundless and have been documented so much and so often that it’s perfectly self-evident to anyone who hasn’t been indoctrinated by the constant bombardment. In short, all news channels have their biases, but they are mostly biased toward the established power base and to the profit motive, and inaccuracies in their news are mostly due to incompetence and random sensationalizing, whereas Fox is fiercely ideological and its lies, misrepresentations, and material omissions are explicitly and deliberately crafted. Well said. Fox News becomes **dangerous** since it pretends to be a “_news organization_” and then passes onto its viewers, a lot of mis-information. Just look at their recent coverage of the Flight MH370 incident. They kept harping on the fact that the pilots were Muslim. And they kept on doing this …terrorism … Muslim … Muslim-terror connection … … day after day. They had “terrorism experts” on their shows claiming that the flight might be used for future terrorist activities. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/385 "2014-03-28T15:28:18Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Fox is a news channel like no other. It has an explicit and overriding agenda to be the propaganda arm of the Republican Party Do you have a cite for this? I want to see data that shows that Fox is worse than the other networks. ---
**Author:** ![SandMan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7993a0/32.png) [@SandMan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandMan1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/386 "2014-03-28T15:44:30Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? I want to see data that shows that Fox is worse than the other networks. > [@](#): > > University Study: Fox Viewers More Misinformed [http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/john-farrell/2010/12/22/university-study-fox-viewers-more-misinformed](http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/john-farrell/2010/12/22/university-study-fox-viewers-more-misinformed) > [@](#): > > Fox News viewers are less informed than people who don’t watch any news, according to a new poll from Fairleigh Dickinson University. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson\_n\_1106305.html#s490344](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson_n_1106305.html#s490344) ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/387 "2014-03-28T16:12:58Z")
And if you look at the questions on surveys like Sandman1 cited, you can see that they are very simplistic. Questions that go into some detail would reveal a much larger lack of knowledge in Fox News viewers. A couple of examples. Both MSNBC and Fox News do lots of stories on voting laws and abortion laws. On voting laws, MSNBC points out how hard it is for some people to get the new ids, but notes that even bigger problems are caused by Republican-led changes that cut down on voting locations, machines per location, voting days, and voting hours per day, all of which make it more difficult to vote whether you have a new id or not, in full knowledge that low turnout favors Republicans. Fox News stories on voting laws typically mention only the IDs, and make it sound like anyone against the legislation must be in favor of illegal aliens voting. On abortion laws, MSNBC notes that clinics are being forced to close because of new regulations specifically targeting them, with requirements on facilities and staffing that are impossible for a small clinic to meet, and that are not required for any other type of outpatient facility. A recent Fox News story on the subject didn’t mention any of this, and implied that the clinics are being forced to close only because the time limit for abortions was shortened. These deliberate errors of omission keep their viewing audience blissfully uninformed. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/388 "2014-03-28T19:45:05Z")
> [@SandMan1](#): > > [http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/john-farrell/2010/12/22/university-study-fox-viewers-more-misinformed](http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/john-farrell/2010/12/22/university-study-fox-viewers-more-misinformed) > > [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson\_n\_1106305.html#s490344](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson_n_1106305.html#s490344) That doesn’t show that Fox is more biased (but it does say something about their viewers). People who read _People_ magazine are probably less informed than those who read _US News and World Report_; does that make _People_ more biased? What I want is a study that compares **bias** between the networks, not the network viewers. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/389 "2014-03-28T21:47:29Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > This issue always amuses me. > > In a vast sea of left of center broadcast news those on the left will froth at the mouth about the one island of Fox news. > > I see it in my own family the hypocrisy the left has on this. > > I have a nephew who spews and rants about how awful Fox is and it’s bias and such. Yet you talk to him about MSNBC and their bias his answer is along the lines of. “Well yes but everyone needs to be exposed to alternate viewpoints” > > So to him alternate viewpoints are good as long as they are the ones he approves of. I suspect that is the general feeling on the left. Alternate viewpoints are ok, as long as it is the ones they approve of. Fox they not like therefore is an unauthorized alternate viewpoint. Yeah, well we already went through your lovely false equipment seen a few pages back. I’d suggest you just go back and see your arguments have already been debunked, but to put it briefly, your assumption that the rest of the media is biased in the same way is false and unsupportable. Additionally, you also ignoring the point that it is not bias which makes Fox News bad, it is there cavalier attitude when it comes to things such as facts which is the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/390 "2014-03-29T13:31:47Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > So, what about Fox News? It’s slogan is, “Fair and Balanced.” People, especially liberals, accuse it of being blatantly pro-Conservative. The thing is, when I’ve watched it, it’s seemed like your typical stupid network news without a whole of lot bias either way. Plus, they have some hot blondes on there, which is nice. Agreed - the FOX newsbabes are the best. But FOX news isn’t really conservative. They are moderate, pretty much in the middle. They will tee off on anyone right or left. The reason that libs claim they are conservative is that the MSM is so far to the left that being in the middle looks conservative. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/391 "2014-03-29T13:59:47Z")
Can you back that up? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/392 "2014-03-29T14:17:12Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Agreed - the FOX newsbabes are the best. > > But FOX news isn’t really conservative. They are moderate, pretty much in the middle. They will tee off on anyone right or left. The reason that libs claim they are conservative is that the MSM is so far to the left that being in the middle looks conservative. Pordun mt spellnk A cam;t ser my minoter rihht now! That’ll teach me to eat breakfast and read SDMB at the same time. I just recovered from the most amazing spit-take! Took a whole roll of paper towels to clean off my monitor!! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/393 "2014-03-29T14:18:10Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Agreed - the FOX newsbabes are the best. > > But FOX news isn’t really conservative. They are moderate, pretty much in the middle. They will tee off on anyone right or left. The reason that libs claim they are conservative is that the MSM is so far to the left that being in the middle looks conservative. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Excuse me. BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHA. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/394 "2014-03-29T14:45:33Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Agreed - the FOX newsbabes are the best. > > But FOX news isn’t really conservative. They are moderate, pretty much in the middle. They will tee off on anyone right or left. The reason that libs claim they are conservative is that the MSM is so far to the left that being in the middle looks conservative. Even those that work at Fox would start choking with laughter if they heard this. I have no idea what audience you’re playing to when you say things like this-are you hoping Roger Ailes will discover you while Googling “Fox” and give you a job? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/395 "2014-03-29T15:07:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Even those that work at Fox would start choking with laughter if they heard this. I have no idea what audience you’re playing to when you say things like this-are you hoping Roger Ailes will discover you while Googling “Fox” and give you a job? It’s **Clothy**. He really does believe that bullshit. It’s kind of sad. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/396 "2014-03-29T16:20:45Z")
> [@rustyrunner](#): > > I suggest watching Al Jazeera for a little while, if you want a dose of reality experienced by most of the world in as much as a news channel can convey realistically. I’ve also heard that BBC America is about as close to an unbiased news source and you can find. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/397 "2014-03-29T16:27:41Z")
Once again, **Clothahump** with the worst post in a thread full of bad posts. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/398 "2014-03-29T17:12:38Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > But FOX news isn’t really conservative. They are moderate, pretty much in the middle. They will tee off on anyone right or left. The reason that libs claim they are conservative is that the MSM is so far to the left that being in the middle looks conservative. There’s really no rational response to a post of this type other than to point and laugh. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/399 "2014-03-29T18:54:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Merely perpetuating it would be a step in the right direction. What they really do is generate, develop or otherwise spread new and improved ignorance. Higher grade ignorance. \*Weaponized \*ignorance. I know the quoted post is years old, but I have to say how much I like the term “weaponized ignorance”. I think that this may be exactly what Fox News (and others) are doing; putting out misinformation designed by propaganda experts like Frank Luntz to cause the narrowing of minds, discourse, and even language. I’ve always accused Fox of being guilty of “manufactured outrage”. I’m adding “weaponized ignorance” or possibly “weaponized disinformation” to that description. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/400 "2014-03-29T19:15:31Z")
Cheers, mate 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=21)