# Is Fox News really all that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625 "2012-10-03T21:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/661 "2014-11-26T03:28:27Z")
> [@callander](#): > > Oh and regarding your point they are both intoxicated with the exuberance of their own verbosity, I agree. Except that you’re implying that they are equally bad. It has been pointed out to you that FOX viewers are less informed than people who watch no news at all, and that FOX lies seven times more than CNN. ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/662 "2014-11-26T03:32:18Z")
Thank you for pointing that out to me. There is always John Stewart to fill in the gap. 1 lies 7 more x than the other, is that a serious position? ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/663 "2014-11-26T03:41:34Z")
Not running away with my tail between my legs, just off for some sleep, will be back tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/664 "2014-11-26T03:54:48Z")
> [@callander](#): > > 1 lies 7 more x than the other, is that a serious position? You said: > [@callander](#): > > Is FOX news really that bad? Yes it is as is CNN. They both have agendas. Fox is right wing extremist and CNN is home for the liberal extremist. You are saying that FOX and CNN are equally bad. Clearly, they are not. Clearly, FOX is a bigger liar than CNN. Here’s a math test: \*\*Please fill in the missing term (Choose \>, ≥, \<, ≤, or =): 49% \_\_ 7%\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/665 "2014-11-26T04:35:30Z")
OK, let’s set aside the issue of whether a network has an agenda, or is biased. Sure, different networks will devote different amounts of resources to different stories, but there’s no objective way to say how much is the “right” amount of attention to pay to a story. But even if we set that aside, there are still plenty of examples of outright lies by Fox News. Are there any examples of CNN or MSNBC mis-labeling a scandle-ridden Democrat as a Republican? Or of twisting graphs around so that higher data points are below lower data points? Or of feeding pictures of politicians through distortion software to make them look like ugly caricatures? Or, in fact, examples of CNN or MSNBC doing _anything at all_ like those? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/666 "2014-11-26T04:50:25Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > “Both sides do it!” > > The home of the lazy thinker. “My side is better than their side!” The home of the biased thinker. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/667 "2014-11-26T05:12:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > “My side is better than their side!” > The home of the biased thinker. Completely ignoring an abundance of clear evidence. The home of the non-thinker. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/668 "2014-11-26T05:15:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > “My side is better than their side!” > The home of the biased thinker. Things is, for example, that the Benghazi incident has been found by the Republicans and Democrats investigating the “scandal” that the administration was not involved in any willful wrongdoing. > **[House Committees Find No Wrongdoing In 2012 Benghazi Attack](https://www.npr.org/2014/11/24/366379320/house-committees-find-no-wrongdoing-in-2012-benghazi-attack)** > > Two House committees of jurisdiction have found no wrongdoing in the 2012 attack on the American diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya. The House Select Committee created by a House vote this year will nevertheless press on with its own investigation. Thing is that most of the media that investigated this also realized that a long time ago, I still remember how in charts the so called FOX news did hundreds of hours of coverage on the rumors, innuendos and exaggerations while MSNBC gave it virtually no attention. [http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2013/05/08/fox-viewers-get-see-108-minutes-live-benghazi-hearings-msnbc-nothing](http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2013/05/08/fox-viewers-get-see-108-minutes-live-benghazi-hearings-msnbc-nothing) (Oh, and besides FOX, Newsbusters did not and does not have a clue either) Well, thing is that in reality **nothing** was there to justify the misleading reporting and it is clear that MSNBC and others got it more or less right (or too much to the right like the fiasco at CBS’s “60 minutes” showed), but FOX and its viewers only got (and still will get) the bullcrap. The Benghazi incident only showed how FOX is either inept at investigating the facts, or just being very good at making propaganda for the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/669 "2014-11-26T07:25:04Z")
> [@callander](#): > > Is FOX news really that bad? Yes it is as is CNN. They both have agendas. Fox is right wing extremist and CNN is home for the liberal extremist. How the hell do we get this post _every few days?!_ It’s hard to find decent objective measures for things like this. There’s no objective way to measure this, yet. But looking at all available measures, I don’t get how anyone could claim that FOX is not the worst. The best objective measure we have (knowledge of the viewers) is a clear wash. We can provide countless examples of lies and inconsistencies, all _clearly_ biased in the same political direction. We can provide the sampling of, say, Politifact, which clearly shows FOX doing way worse than any other network both in proportion and number of lies - which might be a sign of sampling bias, but still is a pretty solid indication that there’s _something wrong here_. But, of course, I’ve been repeating myself for the last few pages. _Go spend some time reading the thread_. There has been quite a lot of evidence presented that FOX is, in fact, _not_ equivalent to CNN, or MSNBC, or any mainstream equivalent on the left. Name me a debacle on CNN as consistently wrong as the constant pimping out of the Benghazi story. Name me a story on CNN as consistently wrong as FOX’s coverage and predictions about Obamacare. Name me a newscaster on CNN as reliably stupid and dishonest as Sean Hannity or Bill O’Reilly. Name me a single shit-flinger _anywhere_ on the political spectrum who is more consistently dishonest and stupid than Anne Coulter (a common FOX News guest, _for some reason_). There’s a reason that the people who watch FOX consistently score lower on fact-based knowledge tests not just than people who watch CNN or MSNBC, but than people who watch _no news at all_. You know what the left-wing equivalent to FOX is? _Natural News_. ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/670 "2014-11-26T17:05:00Z")
Hi Johnny LA, They all vary slightly in degrees of bias, depends on the tides I suppose , \>, ≥, \<, ≤. I never said anything was equal. A reasonable person would agree that there are moderates that watch Fox and other broadcasters/corporations mentioned. be well Callander ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/671 "2014-11-26T17:07:10Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > How the hell do we get this post _every few days?!_ > > It’s hard to find decent objective measures for things like this. There’s no objective way to measure this, yet. But looking at all available measures, I don’t get how anyone could claim that FOX is not the worst. The best objective measure we have (knowledge of the viewers) is a clear wash. We can provide countless examples of lies and inconsistencies, all _clearly_ biased in the same political direction. We can provide the sampling of, say, Politifact, which clearly shows FOX doing way worse than any other network both in proportion and number of lies - which might be a sign of sampling bias, but still is a pretty solid indication that there’s _something wrong here_. > > But, of course, I’ve been repeating myself for the last few pages. _Go spend some time reading the thread_. There has been quite a lot of evidence presented that FOX is, in fact, _not_ equivalent to CNN, or MSNBC, or any mainstream equivalent on the left. Name me a debacle on CNN as consistently wrong as the constant pimping out of the Benghazi story. Name me a story on CNN as consistently wrong as FOX’s coverage and predictions about Obamacare. Name me a newscaster on CNN as reliably stupid and dishonest as Sean Hannity or Bill O’Reilly. Name me a single shit-flinger _anywhere_ on the political spectrum who is more consistently dishonest and stupid than Anne Coulter (a common FOX News guest, _for some reason_). There’s a reason that the people who watch FOX consistently score lower on fact-based knowledge tests not just than people who watch CNN or MSNBC, but than people who watch _no news at all_. You know what the left-wing equivalent to FOX is? _Natural News_. I don’t know how the hell we get this post every few days. Try their most recent reporting of last Tuesday’s attacks in Har Nof. CNN said a Jerusalem Mosque for starters. Be well Callander ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/672 "2014-11-26T17:13:14Z")
> [@callander](#): > > They all vary slightly in degrees of bias, depends on the tides I suppose , \>, ≥, \<, ≤. > > I never said anything was equal. > > A reasonable person would agree that there are moderates that watch Fox and other broadcasters/corporations mentioned. _sigh_ :rolleyes: OK, let’s get this out on the floor right now. Do you, or do you not, claim that other news outlets are equally guilty of spreading falsehoods as FOX News? ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/673 "2014-11-26T17:43:18Z")
Straight up, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/674 "2014-11-26T17:48:31Z")
> [@callander](#): > > Straight up, yes. And yet it has been shown that they are _not_ equally guilty of spreading falsehoods. Your assertion is contrary to the facts. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/675 "2014-11-26T17:55:34Z")
> [@callander](#): > > I don’t know how the hell we get this post every few days. Try their most recent reporting of last Tuesday’s attacks in Har Nof. CNN said a Jerusalem Mosque for starters. > > Be well > Callander CNN corrected the report, can you point at the corrections made by FOX? Including their admission that virtually all their coverage of Benghazi was wrong, mendacious or dumb? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/676 "2014-11-26T17:59:58Z")
> [@callander](#): > > I don’t know how the hell we get this post every few days. Try their most recent reporting of last Tuesday’s attacks in Har Nof. CNN said a Jerusalem Mosque for starters. So, you equate a reference to a suburb of Jerusalem on the Israeli side of the city with a shared border as “Jerusalem” with the sort of deliberate lie that has been repeatedly cited for Fox actions? As if no one has ever referred to an incident in Evanston or Oak Park, IL as having been a “Chicago” event. You really seem to have no point and are not even trying to defend it. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/677 "2014-11-26T18:03:33Z")
> [@callander](#): > > Hi Johnny LA, > > They all vary slightly in degrees of bias, depends on the tides I suppose , \>, ≥, \<, ≤. > > I never said anything was equal. > > A reasonable person would agree that there are moderates that watch Fox and other broadcasters/corporations mentioned. > > be well > Callander So you are saying that they are NOT EQUAL. Okay, got it. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > _sigh_ :rolleyes: > > OK, let’s get this out on the floor right now. > > Do you, or do you not, claim that other news outlets are equally guilty of spreading falsehoods as FOX News? > [@callander](#): > > Straight up, yes. Wait, you are now saying they ARE EQUAL? WTF, within 30 minutes you are contradicting yourself. I’ll sum up. Fox News is entertainment for the right wing, trying to pass itself off as news. CNN is a fairly shitty news network that has gotten too sensationalistic. In other words, it is what most TV and online journalism has deteriorated to. MSNBC, which my right wing friends love to point out to me is the left wing version of Fox, is WATCHED BY ALMOST NO ONE. I’m about as liberal as you can get, and honestly, I could not tell you what channel it’s on on my local cable provider. We clear? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/678 "2014-11-26T18:07:44Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > WTF, within 30 minutes you are contradicting yourself. _AHA!_ It was thirty-_six_ minutes! Why are you spreading falsehoods? :mad: :dubious: GOTCHA! . ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/679 "2014-11-26T18:25:16Z")
Wow that seems to have excited you. To be clear, I don’t think you are reading correctly. No worries ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/680 "2014-11-26T18:32:46Z")
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