# Is Fox News really all that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625 "2012-10-03T21:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/761 "2014-12-11T17:30:56Z")
> [@Uqbar](#): > > ``` > (*) One of the main points Wallace suggests (but can't really rigorously prove) is how either political party can scare off independent voters simply by turning the campaign dirty, ie employing various forms of negative campaigning, so as soon as one party starts gaining a greater share of the independent vote, the other party just has to start yelling, shouting, name calling, etc. (which by at least half the folks at Fox "News" are proven pros at), thereby turning off independents, and thereby canceling the first party's advantage in the independent voter demographic. Taken to the natural end, independents are being continually sidelined (strong word, but I'll use it--disenfranchised), because as soon as one party gets an advantage in that demographic, the other can knock the independents out by turning them off with this general ickiness, returning the fight safely to their base. > > ``` I’m not following you here. Say Party A is achieving an advantage among independents. So, Party B starts their mudslinging, such as, “Party A drowns puppies on the weekends!” Independents don’t like mudslinging, so they turn off to … Party A? Party A isn’t the one mudslinging. Or, are you saying that independents are susceptible to being swayed by outlandish mudslinging? ---
**Author:** ![Uqbar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a587f6/32.png) [@Uqbar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uqbar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/762 "2014-12-11T19:10:42Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > I’m not following you here. Say Party A is achieving an advantage among independents. So, Party B starts their mudslinging, such as, “Party A drowns puppies on the weekends!” Independents don’t like mudslinging, so they turn off to … Party A? Party A isn’t the one mudslinging. Or, are you saying that independents are susceptible to being swayed by outlandish mudslinging? Wallace was suggesting (and my own experience corroborates) that this mudslinging turns off voters to the WHOLE political process–in your example Party A, Party B, political coverage, the whole thing. It’s been a while since I read “The Weasel…”, but Wallace uses the word “cynical” a lot, and that seems like a good choice. The campaigning gets negative, and voters not strongly aligned with the bases, especially the young (according to Wallace), can get cynical (eg negative campaigning is not constructive, productive, interested in progress, and it gets selfish, self-absorbed, bitter, contentious, breeds mistrust between politicians and the public, can bring politicians’ character and moral alignments into question (both the accuser and accused), etc. etc.–this just off the top of my head in 2 minutes…I’m sure the reader’s imagination can supply many more reasons this breeds cynicism and other negative reactions not limited to just one party). ---
**Author:** ![Uqbar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a587f6/32.png) [@Uqbar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uqbar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/763 "2014-12-11T20:20:35Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > I’m not following you here. Say Party A is achieving an advantage among independents. So, Party B starts their mudslinging, such as, “Party A drowns puppies on the weekends!” Independents don’t like mudslinging, so they turn off to … Party A? Party A isn’t the one mudslinging. Or, are you saying that independents are susceptible to being swayed by outlandish mudslinging? Bit of an edit to my post just above–a more specific answer to your question that I just thought of, that was one of the key elements to the Wallace article (thanks DrumGod for bringing it up), was that in your scenario, Party A achieves an advantage among the independents, so Party B starts mudslinging. What now are Party A’s options–they can (a) stay out of the negative campaigning (in which event both bases are likely to see them as weak, having no comeback, etc.) OR (b) join them (turning the whole campaign negative)–in other words _Party A doesn’t have a choice_. (Wallace does a far better job describing this, McCain’s dilemma, when GW Bush started veering the 2000 campaign into negative waters.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/764 "2014-12-12T04:17:56Z")
I have to take issue with this assumption: > [@Uqbar](#): > > (I’m not going to discredit Fox viewers by assuming that they don’t, on some level at least, very well know they’re watching a Republican-slanted broadcast) Maybe some of them do. But many do not. In fact, based on responses in this very thread (and elsewhere online) there is no shortage of Fox viewers who are of the opinion that all of the other channels are part of the liberal media cabal, in the pockets of the Democrats, and Fox News is, um, fair and balanced. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/765 "2014-12-12T04:19:06Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > The problem with Fox News is that the left cannot stand even one network that does not toe the line in what they think is acceptable. > > The natural instant of the mid to far left now (in my observation the last 10 years or so) is to shout out or shut down anyone who does not agree with them. Exhibit A. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/766 "2014-12-12T04:42:42Z")
All the left wants to do is show how not awesome the US is! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/767 "2014-12-12T17:25:44Z")
[Bill O’Reilly skewing data](http://thefreethoughtproject.com/screen-grab-fox-news-police-killings-viral-read-sharing/) > [@](#): > > As awareness grows daily, mainstream media talking heads will attempt to keep their loyal fans uninformed and distracted. Bill O’Reilly recently provided a prime example as the following “statistic” was aired on his show and paraded about by Facebook fans. > > The funny thing is, the same sources used by O’Reilly actually show the opposite of the propagandist’s intended message. The Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice published “Who Are Police Killing?” which demonstrates that African Americans are far more likely to be killed by police officers than whites over a 13 year period, based on the same CDC data that O’Reilly uses. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/768 "2014-12-18T14:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > **Over Half of All Statements Made on Fox News Are False** > > A new analysis by PunditFact found that of every statement made by a Fox News host or guest, over half of them were flat-out false. What’s more, only a measly 8% could be considered completely “true.” > > In other words, a fancy review of hundreds of hours of video confirmed what many who watch Fox News with any regularity already know: Fox News lies. A lot. Like all the time. > > [Addicting Info](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/07/09/analysis-over-half-of-all-statements-made-on-fox-news-are-false/) By itself, given PolitiFact’s uneven reputation, this means little. But as part of a growing chorus of people, institutions and studies that claim that Fox News lie, it should be included. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/769 "2014-12-18T18:51:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Over Half of All Statements Made on Fox News Are False This is a bit misleading. The only statements that end up on politifact are those whose veracity is in question. Statements that are clearly true such as “An American ambassador was killed in an attack on the Bengazi compound”, don’t end up on politifact. So just counting the proportion of politifact statements that are false overestimates the total proportion of things that Fox says that are erroneous. Since the proportion of statements that are controversial is likely to vary from source to source, it is even difficult to compare the proportion between news agencies. Probably the best measure would be to compare the total number of false statements made. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/770 "2014-12-18T19:56:59Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > This is a bit misleading. The only statements that end up on politifact are those whose veracity is in question. Statements that are clearly true such as “An American ambassador was killed in an attack on the Bengazi compound”, don’t end up on politifact. So just counting the proportion of politifact statements that are false overestimates the total proportion of things that Fox says that are erroneous. Since the proportion of statements that are controversial is likely to vary from source to source, it is even difficult to compare the proportion between news agencies. Probably the best measure would be to compare the total number of false statements made. ‘Over half the time’ is incorrect. [FOX News only lies 49% of the time](http://americablog.com/2014/07/punditfact-fox-news-wins-battle-false-cable-network.html). So ‘half the time’ is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/771 "2014-12-21T04:26:25Z")
[Ted Koppel: Fox News ‘Bad for America’](http://samuel-warde.com/2012/09/ted-koppel-fox-news-bad-for-america/) > [@](#): > > Koppel… refuses to fall in with the FoxNews opinion that they are either REAL news or anything remotely close to it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/772 "2014-12-21T20:20:53Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Ted Koppel: Fox News ‘Bad for America’](http://samuel-warde.com/2012/09/ted-koppel-fox-news-bad-for-america/) The blown kiss at the end was fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/773 "2014-12-22T01:22:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Ted Koppel: Fox News ‘Bad for America’](http://samuel-warde.com/2012/09/ted-koppel-fox-news-bad-for-america/) a true journalist! ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/774 "2014-12-22T21:08:24Z")
Fair and balanced, just like their parent network? Three times over the last 24 hours, Baltimore Fox affiliate WBFF has played a misleadingly edited clip from last week’s National “Justice for All” March in Washington, D.C. to make it sound like protesters were calling on people to “kill a cop.” “At this rally in Washington, D.C. participants chanted, **‘We won’t stop, we can’t stop, so kill a cop,’** ” WBFF’s Melinda Roeder said during a Sunday night report about the murder of two police officers in New York City, before playing a truncated version of a protest video from C-SPAN. But when you watch past the point where WBFF cut off, you can hear the full chant had a different message: **We won’t stop. We can’t stop. ‘Til killer cops. Are in cell blocks.** > **[Baltimore Fox 45 WBFF Kill a Cop Chant Video Edit Protest](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-affiliate-edits-protest-chant-to-sound-like-kill-a-cop/)** > > Three times over the last 24 hours, Baltimore Fox affiliate WBFF has played a misleadingly-edited clip from last week's National "Justice for All" March in Washington, D.C. to make it sound like protesters were calling on people to "kill a cop." ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/775 "2014-12-23T00:15:37Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Fair and balanced, just like their parent network? > Three times over the last 24 hours, Baltimore Fox affiliate WBFF has played a misleadingly edited clip from last week’s National “Justice for All” March in Washington, D.C. to make it sound like protesters were calling on people to “kill a cop.” > > “At this rally in Washington, D.C. participants chanted, **‘We won’t stop, we can’t stop, so kill a cop,’** ” WBFF’s Melinda Roeder said during a Sunday night report about the murder of two police officers in New York City, before playing a truncated version of a protest video from C-SPAN. > > But when you watch past the point where WBFF cut off, you can hear the full chant had a different message: **We won’t stop. We can’t stop. ‘Til killer cops. Are in cell blocks.** > > [http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-affiliate-edits-protest-chant-to-sound-like-kill-a-cop/](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-affiliate-edits-protest-chant-to-sound-like-kill-a-cop/) This is especially insidious, because the edited clip DOES sound like “kill a cop,” while the unedited clip from CSPAN shows that the reporter, who very clearly enunciated “kill a cop,” had to know she was lying. Unbelievable, even for Fox. No matter how cynical you get, you can’t keep up. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/776 "2014-12-23T01:53:09Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Fair and balanced, just like their parent network? > Three times over the last 24 hours, Baltimore Fox affiliate WBFF has played a misleadingly edited clip from last week’s National “Justice for All” March in Washington, D.C. to make it sound like protesters were calling on people to “kill a cop.” > > “At this rally in Washington, D.C. participants chanted, **‘We won’t stop, we can’t stop, so kill a cop,’** ” WBFF’s Melinda Roeder said during a Sunday night report about the murder of two police officers in New York City, before playing a truncated version of a protest video from C-SPAN. > > But when you watch past the point where WBFF cut off, you can hear the full chant had a different message: **We won’t stop. We can’t stop. ‘Til killer cops. Are in cell blocks.** > > [http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-affiliate-edits-protest-chant-to-sound-like-kill-a-cop/](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-affiliate-edits-protest-chant-to-sound-like-kill-a-cop/) Why can’t something be done about outright lying like this? Federal broadcast sanctions? How about the protesters sue for defamation? What about inciting violence? ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/777 "2014-12-23T12:49:47Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Why can’t something be done about outright lying like this? > > Federal broadcast sanctions? > How about the protesters sue for defamation? > What about inciting violence? As I recall in the Trayvon Martin case the Zimmerman phone call to the police was edited by NBC and they aired this edited version. This editing gave the appearance of Zimmerman saying something very different than the actual words he used. NBC admitted to this. You can look it up. Now a couple questions to you. In that event were you concerned about the outright lying ? In that event were you advocating Federal Broadcast sanctions ? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/778 "2014-12-23T13:16:10Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > As I recall in the Trayvon Martin case the Zimmerman phone call to the police was edited by NBC and they aired this edited version. This editing gave the appearance of Zimmerman saying something very different than the actual words he used. NBC admitted to this. You can look it up. > > Now a couple questions to you. > > In that event were you concerned about the outright lying ? > > In that event were you advocating Federal Broadcast sanctions ? That depends-What has _this_ station said about what they did? Have they admitted anything? Have they apologized? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/779 "2014-12-23T13:28:17Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Fair and balanced, just like their parent network? Fox News doesn’t really have much to do with Fox affiliates. WBFF is owned and operated by the Sinclair Broadcast Group. Sinclair, as it happens, has its _own_ nasty history, but it isn’t Fox News. (In 2004, Sinclair refused to allow its stations to air a a news program that included a simple reading of the names of every soldier killed in Iraq because it had a “political agenda,” but then later that very same year pre-empted the networks’ programs to air the Swiftboaters’ “documentary.”) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/780 "2014-12-23T13:29:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That depends-What has _this_ station said about what they did? Have they admitted anything? Have they apologized? [Here is the followup:](http://foxbaltimore.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/fox45-news-interviews-tawanda-jones-sister-tyrone-west-34628.shtml#.VJlsXv8FAPg)The Fox affiliate claims that they misheard what was on the tape, and they apologized for the “mistake”…but they were the ones that edited it to cut the chant short to make their “mistake” possible in the first place. In other words, they were sorry they were caught. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=40)