# Is Fox News really all that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625 "2012-10-03T21:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1001 "2015-12-23T18:21:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Listeners to Rush Limbaugh are better informed about US politics and current events that PBS listeners](http://capitalresearch.org/2008/10/pew-research-rush-limbaugh-hannity-colmes-listeners-best-informed-about-us-politics/) - therefore PBS is lying. Correct? “Better informed” as judged (in 2008) by a three-question quiz. Although the three questions should have been gimmes, I don’t think you can extrapolate someone’s general level of current events awareness from that. > [@](#): > > [Here you go](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321995). A very informative thread, consisting ultimately of “This is conclusive” when applied to Fox and “that doesn’t prove anything” when applied to other MSM. A thread form 2005. Got anything from the past decade? Any chance Fox has shifted its emphasis since then? Or perhaps something has happened in the past, oh, seven years that shone a particular light on Fox’s biases? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1002 "2015-12-23T18:46:25Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > “Better informed” as judged (in 2008) by a three-question quiz. Although the three questions should have been gimmes, I don’t think you can extrapolate someone’s general level of current events awareness from that. > [@Shodan](#): > > “This is conclusive” when applied to Fox and “that doesn’t prove anything” when applied to other MSM. See the linked thread for other examples. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1003 "2015-12-23T18:50:18Z")
Non of them even remotely current. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1004 "2015-12-23T18:54:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > See the linked thread for other examples. > > Regards, > Shodan What is the first word in the title of this thread? It is not “Was”. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1005 "2015-12-23T19:47:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Listeners to Rush Limbaugh are better informed about US politics and current events that PBS listeners](http://capitalresearch.org/2008/10/pew-research-rush-limbaugh-hannity-colmes-listeners-best-informed-about-us-politics/) - therefore PBS is lying. Correct? > No, it is merely subjective opinion. The real and significant difference between FoxNews and other mainstream media is that FoxNews is to the right of center, and the rest are to the left. > [Here you go](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321995). A very informative thread, consisting ultimately of “This is conclusive” when applied to Fox and “that doesn’t prove anything” when applied to other MSM. > > Regards, > Shodan Two misunderstandings, the survey made about the Rush listeners was based on 3 simple questions. No questioning about what that knowledge gets you, as other more complete surveys showed viewers of FOX (with a very similar demographic as Rush’s) appear to be the most misinformed indeed. And the thread you linked has more evidence that shows how out of whack the political compass is for conservatives, as I pointed there conservatives consider Fox news as their own or at least as a fair and balanced source :rolleyes: Leftists don’t consider CNN or CBS or the other mainstream channels as their own news. (Important issues for the left like clean water, clean air, global warming, worker’s rights are not repeated day in and day out by the “leftist media”, like FOX or Rush did with Benghazi for the benefit of the right) Both the left and the right agree that outlets like Fox are a part of the conservative experience. **The right however does deny that the left in general does not see outlets like CNN or CBS as their media!** Fact is when looking (only when issues like this pop up) at Democratic Underground I see hundreds of complaints against the mainstream media actively ignoring many subjects that the left considers important. So sorry, the best one can say is that the mainstream media is centrist and right of center on many subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1006 "2015-12-23T19:50:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Listeners to Rush Limbaugh are better informed about US politics and current events that PBS listeners](http://capitalresearch.org/2008/10/pew-research-rush-limbaugh-hannity-colmes-listeners-best-informed-about-us-politics/) - therefore PBS is lying. Correct? Ha, that’s it! Hold it right there! Acronym trouble. It’s not PBS listeners, it’s NPR listeners. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1007 "2015-12-23T20:00:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Listeners to Rush Limbaugh are better informed about US politics and current events that PBS listeners](http://capitalresearch.org/2008/10/pew-research-rush-limbaugh-hannity-colmes-listeners-best-informed-about-us-politics/) - therefore PBS is lying. Correct? Um, PBS wasn’t in that poll. Assuming that you meant NPR here are the percentages who answered each question correctly: NPR: 73 percent, 72 percent, 57percent Rush Limbaugh: 83 percent, 71 percent, 41 percent So, where are you seeing that Limbaugh listeners are better informed from these numbers? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1008 "2015-12-23T20:08:29Z")
**Fiveyearlurker** , **Shodan** is only seeing the misrepresentation coming from a right wing think tank. The misrepresentation BTW got into lying territory for that think tank, the link that **Shodan** is using is lying and misguiding their readers. The are an outfit called “The Capital Research Center” a right wing [del]stink[/del] think tank. This is the not spinned source where the outfit that **Shodan** linked to goes: > **[Americans Flunk Simple 3-Question Political Survey](https://www.livescience.com/2957-americans-flunk-simple-3-question-political-survey.html)** > > Some news audiences are more politically informed than others. > [@](#): > > Some news audiences are more politically savvy than others, according to a new poll, **with readers of The New Yorker and similar high-brow magazines being the most knowledgeable.** > > The survey, conducted between April 30 and June 1 by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, measured the political knowledge of 3,612 U.S. adults. Participants were asked to name the controlling party of the U.S. House of Representatives, the U.S. secretary of state and Great Britain’s prime minister. The misrepresentation comes when that stink tank only looked at the great levels Rush listeners got by identifying the majority party in the house back then. On the second question the D-heads did as good as the others and worse on the 3rd question. > [@](#): > > Here’s a detailed breakdown of the percentage of individuals answering each of the three questions correctly from the different news audiences: > > [ul] > [li]The New Yorker/Atlantic: 71 percent (correctly identified Democrats as the majority in the House), 71 percent (correctly identified Condoleezza Rice), 59 percent (correctly identified Gordon Brown)[/li][li]NPR: 73 percent, 72 percent, 57percent[/li][li]Hannity & Colmes: 84 percent, 73 percent, 49 percent[/li][li]Rush Limbaugh: 83 percent, 71 percent, 41 percent[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1009 "2015-12-23T20:39:58Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Ha, that’s it! Hold it right there! Acronym trouble. > > It’s not PBS listeners, it’s NPR listeners. Or APM. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1010 "2015-12-23T20:58:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Listeners to Rush Limbaugh are better informed about US politics and current events that PBS listeners](http://capitalresearch.org/2008/10/pew-research-rush-limbaugh-hannity-colmes-listeners-best-informed-about-us-politics/) - therefore PBS is lying. Correct? What a lousy example. Basic political competence (the questions in that poll are literally “Who is the Secretary of State”, “Who has a majority in the house of representatives” and “who is the prime minister of Britain”) is not the greatest judge of bias or misinformation - not only is there no advantage in lying about who SecState is at the moment, but it’s such an obviously blatant issue that you could hardly get away with it. The problem with this is that the polls FOX does poorly on are the ones that aren’t simply basic political competence. Things like whether AGW exists, what we knew in the lead-up to the Iraq war; messy, complex issues where it’s easy to slip in a lie (or an entirely bogus narrative). Do you understand why this is more meaningful than people being able to correctly answer basic political knowledge questions by a margin of 10 points or so? > [@](#): > > No, it is merely subjective opinion. The real and significant difference between FoxNews and other mainstream media is that FoxNews is to the right of center, and the rest are to the left. Nice, way to absolutely fail to address the evidence provided. > [@](#): > > [Here you go](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321995). A very informative thread, consisting ultimately of “This is conclusive” when applied to Fox and “that doesn’t prove anything” when applied to other MSM. > > Regards, > Shodan What I see in that thread is a whole lot of **Bricker** plying his trade of choice, and not a whole lot of decent arguments. Post #18 is right on point, honestly. Bias is hard to quantify. But when you combine the numerous studies done on right-wing news like Fox or Talk Radio with their politifact files and the various stories about [internal](http://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-fox-news-memo-reveals-news-division-told-to-echo-gop-talking-point-2010-12?IR=T) [memos](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/leaked-memos-cast-doubt-on-fox-news-claim-of-neutrality-2162660.html) with some seriously biased contents, it paints an extremely clear picture. Would you please actually address any of this, and not simply deflect with a decade-old, largely time-wasting thread and a basic political competency poll? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1011 "2015-12-23T21:06:46Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > What a lousy example. Basic political competence (the questions in that poll are literally “Who is the Secretary of State”, “Who has a majority in the house of representatives” and “who is the prime minister of Britain”) is not the greatest judge of bias or misinformation - not only is there no advantage in lying about who SecState is at the moment, but it’s such an obviously blatant issue that you could hardly get away with it. > [@Shodan](#): > > “This is conclusive” when applied to Fox and “that doesn’t prove anything” when applied to other MSM. Imagine my surprise at being shown correct. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1012 "2015-12-23T21:11:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Imagine my surprise at being shown correct. > > Regards, > Shodan Imagine our boredom at being shown your same old schtick. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1013 "2015-12-23T21:16:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Imagine my surprise at being shown correct. > > Regards, > Shodan Why surprised? It happens extremely frequently. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1014 "2015-12-23T21:26:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Listeners to Rush Limbaugh are better informed about US politics and current events that PBS listeners](http://capitalresearch.org/2008/10/pew-research-rush-limbaugh-hannity-colmes-listeners-best-informed-about-us-politics/) - therefore PBS is lying. Correct? > No, it is merely subjective opinion. The real and significant difference between FoxNews and other mainstream media is that FoxNews is to the right of center, and the rest are to the left. > [Here you go](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321995). A very informative thread, consisting ultimately of “This is conclusive” when applied to Fox and “that doesn’t prove anything” when applied to other MSM. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t believe a thing Capital Research Center says. They are not a neutral source. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1015 "2015-12-23T21:44:39Z")
Slightly more topical than a 2008 poll: a Fox News co-host suggests that we just kill everybody imprisoned at Gitmo. > **[Fox News' Kimberly Guilfoyle Would Turn Gitmo Into a Death Camp](https://www.politicususa.com/2015/12/20/foxs-kimberly-guilfoyle-turn-gitmo-death-camp.html)** > > Guilfoyle exclaimed, "Just kill them all and close Gitmo, that's fine. They don't have to come here, they don't have to stay there.". ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1016 "2015-12-23T22:08:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Imagine my surprise at being shown correct. > > Regards, > Shodan edit: thought better of it. Your argument is really, really weak, dude. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1017 "2015-12-23T22:14:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Imagine my surprise at being shown correct. > > Regards, > Shodan So “The Capital Research Center” in essence lied to you and you are happy with that? No wonder what you post is **dis** regarded. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1018 "2015-12-23T22:21:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Imagine my surprise at being shown correct. > > Regards, > Shodan Let’s try this again. 5 minute edit windows and whatnot _grumble grumble_ Do you really not see any substantial difference between a poll comparing acceptance of significantly different narratives of reality (of which only one is correct) and a poll testing basic political competence? Because when various news networks bring back vastly different results, the former actually _matters_. It tells us when a portion of the population is being lied to in a way that is substantial and dangerous. When people are ignorant, it’s unfortunate and can have some negative results. But that’s easily remedied by giving them correct information. Lies? Lies are a different story. When people believe a completely nonsensical narrative about our political history, or science, and that narrative is used to whip them up into a frenzy, it can lead to some very nasty places. For example: Donald Trump. And it’s a lot harder to correct - “I don’t know” is easily supplanted; “I know” is not. That, fundamentally, is the difference between the study you touted (incorrectly, as others have pointed out) and the studies I’m touting. The people who watch FOX news in my studies are not just uninformed or ignorant, they are actively being lied to. They are being sold a narrative which is fundamentally wrong, and in many ways quite dangerous. That’s the difference. Meanwhile, you simply ignored the evidence I presented. Instead of actually addressing it, you cherry-picked a single study that is in no way comparable to the studies I linked to earlier, and then crowed that you “saw it coming” when I pointed out the problems in your reasoning. The fact that your argument is weak sauce is in no way mitigated by the fact that you saw my rejection of your weak sauce argument coming. It’s just a cheesy way to win rhetorical points and make everyone just that much more annoyed at you. Come on, man. If you are interested in defending FOX News, then actually defend FOX News. Don’t just come in here, make a shitty argument, and then proclaim victory when someone complains about how shitty your argument is. ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1019 "2015-12-24T04:54:25Z")
Fox seems to have gotten more rational. I think when the repubs lost congress years ago they went a bit looney. I tried to be a conservative but after catching limbaugh and hannity lying several times in a few weeks I got concerned. Then I spent the day watching Fox and they showed Hillary yelling at some lady on every program instead of a plane crash that was one of the biggest stories of the year. Then with all the sketchy rhetoric they had they still lost to Obama and I think they are more rational now, but i wouldnt give a squirt of piss to keep that channel on the air. They attack religious peoples fear which is their weakness. There is a brain scan that shows conservatives fear centers light up when other peoples logic centers light up. I have a lot of conservative friends but maybe 1 I trust for intellectual conversation. The others are mostly simple religious folk whose insights are average at best. If you see a fat person who thinks slow there is a pretty good chance they are a conservative. Im a moderate who supports Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul or a 3rd party. ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1020 "2015-12-24T05:33:12Z")
> [@phreak9](#): > > Fox seems to have gotten more rational. I think when the repubs lost congress years ago they went a bit looney. I tried to be a conservative but after catching limbaugh and hannity lying several times in a few weeks I got concerned. Then I spent the day watching Fox and they showed Hillary yelling at some lady on every program instead of a plane crash that was one of the biggest stories of the year. Then with all the sketchy rhetoric they had they still lost to Obama and I think they are more rational now, but i wouldnt give a squirt of piss to keep that channel on the air. They attack religious peoples fear which is their weakness. There is a brain scan that shows conservatives fear centers light up when other peoples logic centers light up. I have a lot of conservative friends but maybe 1 I trust for intellectual conversation. The others are mostly simple religious folk whose insights are average at best. If you see a fat person who thinks slow there is a pretty good chance they are a conservative. Im a moderate who supports Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul or a 3rd party. edit-The others are mostly simple religious folk whose insights are average at best or were born into rich families. If you see a fat person who thinks slow or is mildly racist or know someone born rich there is a pretty good chance they are a conservative. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=52)