# Is Fox News really all that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625 "2012-10-03T21:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1241 "2016-12-23T15:14:00Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > As far as Fox’s reliability is concerned, since most of the arguments regarding this is just personal opinion from internet partisans on one side or the other, I attempted to bring some facts to the debate, and I’ll post it again. > > According to Pew Research, MSNBC was founded to be the most biased cable news network, with Fox coming in second behind CNN: > > [http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2013/03/18/pew-study-finds-msnbc-the-most-opinionated-cable-news-channel-by-far/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/](http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2013/03/18/pew-study-finds-msnbc-the-most-opinionated-cable-news-channel-by-far/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/) But that article doesn’t document bias. It documents _opinionation_. That 85% listed on MSNBC includes, for example, “Morning Joe”, a notoriously conservative show. At the same time, it fails to account for either honesty or actual bias of the individual shows. For example, by this chart, Hannity is placed on the same level as, say, Rachael Maddow. While I can’t speak to the bias here, I can tell you with some certainty that Hannity is a news source on par with Anne Coulter or Rush Limbaugh - a completely untrustworthy shitflinger - while Maddow generally can be trusted not to lie to your face. That’s a substantial difference. Whether a show counts as “opinion” or “news” is a lot less important than whether or not the show is portraying events accurately and fairly. And this thread is full of examples where not only is FOX News _disturbingly_ biased, but also just flat-out dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1242 "2016-12-23T15:16:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You are not accurately representing your cite. The analysis is the ratios of opinion-to-news, not > > opinion-masquerading-as-news. Yawn… > **[Fox News](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News)** > > The Fox News Channel (FNC), commonly known as Fox News, is an American multinational conservative news and political commentary television channel and website based in New York City. It is owned by Fox News Media, which itself is owned by the Fox Corporation. It is the most-watched cable news network in the U.S., and as of 2023 generates approximately 70% of its parent company's pre-tax profit. The channel broadcasts primarily from studios at 1211 Avenue of the Americas in Mi The channel was ... _Fox News Channel employees have responded that news reporting **operates independently of its opinion and commentary programming** , and have denied bias_\* in news reporting.\*\* \* So no, you are misinformed, Fox does not claim that it’s commentary such as O’Reilly and the like are “news reporters” or “journalists” or “Fair and Balanced” according to this cite. If you want to argue that the news reporting is more biased than MSNBC using facts rather than partisan hogwash, then you’re going to need to leave O’Reilly, the “war on Christmas” stuff, etc out of it and bring some studies or statistics to the table, rather than just regurgitate every little soundbyte from O’Reilly and Hannity you find on Media Matters to confirm why you dislike Fox. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1243 "2016-12-23T15:33:10Z")
F it ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1244 "2016-12-23T15:35:50Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > If only this thread were about Faux News and it’s relative bias, you might be on to something. If it’s not a thread for any factual discussion or comparison, just a thread for you to regurgitate every little thing you dislike about what O’Reilly said, or how there’s “no war on Chrismas”, or whatnot, Then I’m not sure why you’re on a website who’s slogan is ‘fighting ignorance’ when in actuality, you’re merely indulging in it. So again, if you’re arguing that Fox’s news reporting is more biased or dishonest than that of the other cable networks, then do please provide some sources, and no, chanting “Faux News!” doesn’t count as providing sources. So far the only provided source confirms that MSNBC is the most biased in terms of “opinion to news ratio”, while CNN is the least biased. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1245 "2016-12-23T15:37:30Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Yawn… > > [Fox News - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News) > > _Fox News Channel employees have responded that news reporting **operates independently of its opinion and commentary programming** , and have denied bias_\* in news reporting.\*\* > \* > > So no, you are misinformed, Fox does not claim that it’s commentary such as O’Reilly and the like are “news reporters” or “journalists” or “Fair and Balanced” according to this cite. > > If you want to argue that the news reporting is more biased than MSNBC using facts rather than partisan hogwash, then you’re going to need to leave O’Reilly, the “war on Christmas” stuff, etc out of it and bring some studies or statistics to the table, rather than just regurgitate every little soundbyte from O’Reilly and Hannity you find on Media Matters to confirm why you dislike Fox. There is a lot of evidence to back up the assertions-they are in this thread to be read, and we shouldn’t have to regurgitate them just for you. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1246 "2016-12-23T15:39:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There is a lot of evidence to back up the assertions-they are in this thread to be read, and we shouldn’t have to regurgitate them just for you. And what assertions were they? If they were just random clips or Sound-bytes of O’Reilly or Hannity then they fail to make for a comparative discussion regarding Fox versus MSNBC or other networks. Just another tired boilerplate rant about how “bad” Fox is by inane partisans. Regardless, the poster above who made the claim that Fox presents O’Reilly and Hannity as journalists or news reporters was never cited, and poster seems to have flown the coop after the Wikipedia article was posted. Your best bet would be to ignore the commentators and provide sources about bias or misinformation in Fox’s news reporting, though even then without a comparsion check with other networks it wouldn’t make much of a case for Fox being “all that bad” by the standards of cable news journalism, however low it might be entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1247 "2016-12-23T15:42:02Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > And what assertions were they? If they were just random clips or Sound-bytes of O’Reilly or Hannity then they fail to make for a comparative discussion regarding Fox versus MSNBC or other networks. > > Just another tired boilerplate rant about how “bad” Fox is by inane partisans. We’ve got a lot more than that, and the cite is this thread. Why don’t you read it? ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1248 "2016-12-23T15:43:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > We’ve got a lot more than that, and the cite is this thread. > Why don’t you read it? Give me a “TL;DR” version first and then I’ll consider it. So far I haven’t read much about Fox News journalism, just silly rants about how “there’s no war on Christmas!”, “O’Reilly”, and that sort of rot. So it seems like this is more of a thread just for progressives to rant about why they dislike Fox more than anything grounded in facts or comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1249 "2016-12-23T15:45:04Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Give me a “TL;DR” version first and then I’ll consider it. > > So far I haven’t read much about Fox News journalism, just silly rants about how “there’s no war on Christmas!”, “O’Reilly”, and that sort of rot. So it seems like this is more of a thread just for progressives to rant about why they dislike Fox more than anything grounded in facts or comparison. Let us know when you’re done. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1250 "2016-12-23T15:46:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let us know when you’re done. I said give me a TL;DR version. Tell me what the premise is for why you consider Fox’s news journalism worse than the other 2 networks, then I’ll read the sources. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1251 "2016-12-23T15:49:15Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Yawn… Facts bore you, do they? I’m shocked. > [@](#): > > [Fox News - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News) > > _Fox News Channel employees have responded that news reporting **operates independently of its opinion and commentary programming** , and have denied bias_\* in news reporting.\*\* > \* Ha! You’re relying on _Fox_ to accurately assess bias at Fox? Then what’s the point of citing Pew Research? > [@](#): > > So no, you are misinformed, Fox does not claim that it’s commentary such as O’Reilly and the like are “news reporters” or “journalists” or “Fair and Balanced” according to this cite. Of course they don’t claim it. They just use their commentators as springboards for news segments that included phrases like “People are talking about the President’s latest budget plan”, when it’s _their_ people who’ve been doing so. I wouldn’t have a problem at all with a cable channel that was 100% opinion and admitted it. Fox lets their opinion side bleed over to their news side _without_ admitting it, and their news side is often on pretty shaky grounds regarding accuracy. I stand by original assessment - your description of your own Pew cite was inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1252 "2016-12-23T15:51:04Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > I said give me a TL;DR version. Tell me what the premise is for why you consider Fox’s news journalism worse than the other 2 networks, then I’ll read the sources. It’s already been done in this thread, and frankly, you just aren’t special enough to me to go through all that unneeded effort. Jump through your own damn hoops. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1253 "2016-12-23T16:21:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Facts bore you, do they? I’m shocked. I posted facts, you posted mumbo jumbo and crap about the “war on Christmas”. Nice dodge. > [@](#): > > Ha! You’re relying on _Fox_ to accurately assess bias at Fox? Then what’s the point of citing Pew Research? The Wikipedia article simply said that Fox didn’t deny that O’Reilly and the like are biased, they claim their news reporting isn’t and is separate from their commentators. So if you want to asses their news reporting then again, provide sources instead of regurgitating more nonsense. The only source posted from Pew Research found MSNBC as the most biased in terms of “opinion to news ratio”. Those are the facts, you’re just spouting inane rhetoric. > [@](#): > > Of course they don’t claim it. They just use their commentators as springboards for news segments that included phrases like “People are talking about the President’s latest budget plan”, when it’s _their_ people who’ve been doing so. Feel free to source it then instead of just chanting “Faux News!” > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t have a problem at all with a cable channel that was 100% opinion and admitted it. Fox lets their opinion side bleed over to their news side _without_ admitting it, and their news side is often on pretty shaky grounds regarding accuracy. > > I stand by original assessment - your description of your own Pew cite was inaccurate. So post sources comparing their news reporting to that of other networks, no one’s stopping you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1254 "2016-12-23T16:28:57Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Feel free to source it then instead of just chanting “Faux News!” > So post sources comparing their news reporting to that of other networks, no one’s stopping you. Your wish is our command-[here you go!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=667548) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1255 "2016-12-23T16:48:10Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > I posted facts, you posted mumbo jumbo and crap about the “war on Christmas”. Nice dodge. Well, now I absolutely cannot take you seriously because I didn’t even mention the so-called War on Christmas - you’ve confused me with another of your apparently-numerous critics. > [@](#): > > Feel free to source it then instead of just chanting “Faux News!” I didn’t do that either. It’s not clear to me that you’re bothering to tell us apart, so I don’t think I’ll put in the further effort. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1256 "2016-12-23T16:53:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your wish is our command-[here you go!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=667548) …fail. Still no sources by 3rd parties citing that Fox’s news journalism is worse than the other cable networks. So far the only sourced information from Pew still confirms MSNBC as ‘more biased’ than Fox in terms of opinion to news ratio. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1257 "2016-12-23T16:54:30Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > …fail. Still no sources by 3rd parties citing that Fox’s news journalism is worse than the other cable networks. You read through it already? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1258 "2016-12-23T17:01:47Z")
Because you asked nicely, here’s a nice, short, condensed version of the thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16771193&postcount=307](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16771193&postcount=307) FOX News is legitimately the worst mainstream news source, unless you want to count something like Breitbart as “mainstream” nowadays. Its viewers are among the most ill-informed in every poll cited, their editorial stance on things like climate change is appalling, and they lie _constantly_ - which you can see if you take the time to read through this thread. > [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > If you want to argue that the news reporting is more biased than MSNBC using facts rather than partisan hogwash, then you’re going to need to leave O’Reilly, the “war on Christmas” stuff, etc out of it and bring some studies or statistics to the table, rather than just regurgitate every little soundbyte from O’Reilly and Hannity you find on Media Matters to confirm why you dislike Fox. But that’s nonsense. It’s FOX News’s MO to use the talking heads to open up a topic which they then reinforce in the news shows. It’s also true that their news reporting [is directly influenced by an editorial through-line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies#Daily_memos). And like it or not, but when you bill yourself as a news network, and then bring out Sean Hannity, you don’t get to hide behind “but we know they’re biased”, because the problem is not “they’re biased”, the problem is “they’re dishonest and untrustworthy”. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1259 "2016-12-23T17:56:25Z")
Crap. Forgot which forum I was in… ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625/1260 "2016-12-23T18:17:04Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Because you asked nicely, here’s a nice, short, condensed version of the thread: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16771193&postcount=307](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16771193&postcount=307) > > FOX News is legitimately the worst mainstream news source, unless you want to count something like Breitbart as “mainstream” nowadays. Its viewers are among the most ill-informed in every poll cited, their editorial stance on things like climate change is appalling, and they lie _constantly_ - which you can see if you take the time to read through this thread. Show me the sources with the statistics. You’re claiming that Fox News watchers rank lower in polls on general informed-ness than watchers of the other networks. Fair enough, should be easy to post the source in question. As far as lies, I don’t give a crap unless you’re going to compare it to the other networks, if the thread is simply dredging up a bunch of Fox News lies with nothing for comparison, then I’m not interested since that’s just partisan propaganda, not proving that Fox lies the most of the 3 cable networks. > [@](#): > > But that’s nonsense. It’s FOX News’s MO to use the talking heads to open up a topic which they then reinforce in the news shows. It’s also true that their news reporting [is directly influenced by an editorial through-line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies#Daily_memos). And like it or not, but when you bill yourself as a news network, and then bring out Sean Hannity, you don’t get to hide behind “but we know they’re biased”, because the problem is not “they’re biased”, the problem is “they’re dishonest and untrustworthy”. Cool story bro. Are you just arguing how much you think they’re dishonest charlatans, or are you claiming that they’re more dishonest and slanted than Ed Schultz or any of the pundits on MSNBC or the other networks? And if so, then happily present some sources for comparison of Fox Pundits with MSNBC pundits, instead of just ranting on and on again about how much you personally detest Hannity, or O’Reilly. - If you want to prove Fox is the worst of the 3, you’re gonna have to compare them side-by-side, not just search the internet for every negative thing you can find about Fox while ignoring the other networks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fox-news-really-all-that-bad/636625.md?page=64)