# Is "Frankenstein" a real German name, or did Shelley make it up? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [July 8, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774 "2023-07-08T15:27:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/1 "2023-07-08T15:27:18Z")
Just curious: is “Frankenstein” a real German name, or did Mary Shelley make it up for the novel? I tried googling, but every reference I found was to the novel or the movies. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/2 "2023-07-08T15:30:04Z")
I put your question to the ChatBot and FWIW this is what it told me: “Frankenstein” is not a real German surname in the sense that it does not have a documented history or usage prior to Mary Shelley’s novel. However, Mary Shelley did not entirely make up the name either. She derived it from a real place called Castle Frankenstein, located near the city of Darmstadt in Germany. Castle Frankenstein is known to have inspired Mary Shelley’s novel, and it is likely that she adopted the name for her fictional scientist and his creation from this source. So while ‘Frankenstein’ is not a pre-existing German surname, Mary Shelley used it creatively based on real-world inspiration." ETA after @Cervaise’s post: I guess the ChatBot didn’t look hard enough. 👎🏽 Although it got the part about the castle right. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/3 "2023-07-08T15:30:11Z")
> **[House of Franckenstein](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Franckenstein)** > > The House of Franckenstein (also Frankenstein) is the name of a feudal, Franconian noble family in Germany, descendants from the Dynasts of the Breuberg family; offsprings of the Lords of Lützelbach from Höchst im Odenwald. > In 948 an Arbogast von Franckenstein confirmed to the abbot of Lorsch Abbey in two contracts to "grant defense and shield the carriages travelling on the Bergstraße and passing through Frankenstein realm". In the same year, this knight Arbogast is supposed to have won the To... A noble German family from at least the 1200s. They had a castle and everything. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/4 "2023-07-08T16:15:07Z")
And the proper pronunciation is “frahnk-en-schteen”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/5 "2023-07-08T16:18:36Z")
We all get the reference, but since this is FQ I think we should have the correct pronunciation of ‘stein’. In German, ‘ei’ is pronounced like an English long-i – ‘eye’. ‘Steen’ would be spelled with ‘ie’. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/6 "2023-07-08T16:22:53Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > since this is FQ CS, actually, or I wouldn’t have made a jokey movie reference this soon into the thread (I actually checked to make sure it wasn’t FQ!) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/7 "2023-07-08T16:31:12Z")
> [@solost](#): > > CS, actually My bad. I just clicked on the ‘new post’ link, and it looked like a factual question. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/8 "2023-07-08T16:35:57Z")
Done the same thing myself many times. Took maybe 12 of my 13 years here to get in the habit of checking the category before I post (some of the time, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/9 "2023-07-08T16:38:09Z")
> [@solost](#): > > And the proper pronunciation is “frahnk-en-schteen”. _Whiiinnny_ somewhere in the distance. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/10 "2023-07-08T16:56:20Z")
Not only is it a real German name, it was the name of a family of gifted artists whjo lived in Ohio. They adopted the name upon immigrating, unaware that there was a notorious novel of the same name. Have a look at “FRankenstein’s Niagara on Broadway” on YouTube (I can’t link to it) By the way, I did a thread about this family several months ago. I found GUstavus Frankenstein’s notes in the library of the American Philosophical Society in Philadelphia. He though he had discovered the Secret of the Universe. No joke. I had to find out what his discovery was. It turned out to be a clever matrhematical construction, but of far less significance than he attributed to it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/11 "2023-07-08T17:06:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I put your question to the ChatBot and FWIW this is what it told me: Do not trust ChatGPT with factual questions. It’s very hit-or-miss for that kind of stuff. For example, yesterday I asked it to tell me how a VIN (vehicle identification number) was formatted, and it got most things right, but for some reason said the 11th position is for model year, when the 10th position is. And it screwed up positions 9-11 in general. But the other ones were correct. So for facts, not so good. Bing’s implementation of ChatGPT does give the answer that Frankenstein is a real name. Oddly, when I ask ChatGPT, it also tells me Frankenstein is a real name as a surname. (Actually, it’s not that odd – I’ve noticed this behavior when I first started using it, that there is some randomness in the answers it gives you, even if you clear it and start as a new chat. Sometimes it’ll give you the right answer, sometimes a wrong one, and sometimes in between.) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/12 "2023-07-08T17:12:13Z")
I don’t unreservedly trust the ChatBot. But I like to ask to see what it says. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/13 "2023-07-08T18:46:54Z")
I asked ChatGTP “Where wolf?”. Sadly, it did _not_ answer “There wolf.”: The phrase “Where wolf?” is a play on words, combining the word “where” with “wolf” to create a sentence that can be interpreted as “Where is the wolf?” or “Wear wolf?” depending on the context. If you meant “Where is the wolf?” it would depend on the specific situation and context. Wolves are typically found in various parts of the world, including North America, Europe, Asia, and parts of Africa. The exact location of a wolf would depend on its natural habitat and range, which can vary depending on the species and geographical region. If you meant “Wear wolf?” it could refer to someone transforming into a wolf, like the mythical creature known as a werewolf. In folklore, a werewolf is a person who changes into a wolf or a wolf-like creature during certain conditions, such as a full moon. However, werewolves are fictional creatures and do not exist in reality. If you have a specific context or question related to wolves or werewolves, feel free to provide more information so I can assist you further. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/14 "2023-07-08T18:50:05Z")
“I was hoping you would reply with “There wolf”.” I apologize for the misunderstanding. The correct response to the phrase “Where wolf?” is indeed “There wolf.” This is a famous line from the comedy film “Young Frankenstein” (1974), directed by Mel Brooks. In the film, the character played by Gene Wilder says, “Werewolf!” to which another character, played by Marty Feldman, responds, “Werewolf? There wolf. There castle.” It’s a humorous play on words that relies on the similar sounds of “where” and “there.” Thank you for reminding me of that reference! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/15 "2023-07-08T19:07:27Z")
Let me just take a moment to point out how brilliant a comedian Marty Feldman was. He should not be forgotten. He was a great writer and performer and collaborated with a number of people from Monty Python (though he was never a member). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/16 "2023-07-08T20:28:22Z")
Yes, Marty Feldman was amazing. He was so much more than his trademark one weird eye. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/17 "2023-07-08T20:33:23Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Marty Feldman In fact, he was one of the stars of the television show _At Last the 1948 Show_ (which was shown on the British channel ITV in 1967, despite the name), so it was done before _Monty Python’s Flying Circus_. It also starred Tim Brooke-Taylor, Graham Chapman, John Cleese, and Aimi MacDonald, and hence the Monty Python connection. It had some brilliant sketches like “The Four Yorkshiremen”: > **[At Last the 1948 Show](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_Last_the_1948_Show)** > > At Last the 1948 Show is a satirical television show made by David Frost's company, Paradine Productions (although it was not credited on the programmes), in association with Rediffusion London. Transmitted on Britain's ITV network in 1967, it brought Cambridge Footlights humour to a broader audience. > The show starred and was written by Tim Brooke-Taylor, Graham Chapman, John Cleese, and Marty Feldman. Cleese and Brooke-Taylor were also the programme editors. Aimi MacDonald (usually billed ... ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/18 "2023-07-08T21:07:48Z")
I used to have an old army groundsheet/cape that was made by ‘P. Frankenstein, London & Manchester’. [https://gracesguide.co.uk/P.\_Frankenstein\_and\_Sons\_(Manchester)](https://gracesguide.co.uk/P._Frankenstein_and_Sons_(Manchester)) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/19 "2023-07-08T21:17:32Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > It had some brilliant sketches like “The Four Yorkshiremen”: Marty wrote that sketch. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2023, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774/20 "2023-07-09T01:14:49Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > “Werewolf? There wolf. There castle.” Why are we talking like this? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-frankenstein-a-real-german-name-or-did-shelley-make-it-up/986774.md?page=2)