# Is Fred Phelps in Heaven now?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 15, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193 "2014-04-15T18:32:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/21 "2014-04-16T00:16:09Z")
Nah, just to screw with his head he got sent to Tartarus after being told that the Gods of Olympus are the One True Religion.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/22 "2014-04-16T00:25:32Z")
The Bible isn’t particularly clear on when you go to Heaven or Hell, or even if those are meaningful terms or just metaphors. With extensive quoting from the Bible, you could make a solid argument for basically anything.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/23 "2014-04-16T00:26:17Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> If Hitler getting in to Heaven doesn’t ASSURE you getting in, then maybe lay off the puppy torture or whatever.
☹ Do I HAFTA?!
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### Author:  [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/24 "2014-04-16T00:41:35Z")
While I don’t believe in “heaven” (or supernatural deities for that matter) and I don’t support Phelp’s activities or his message I don’t see where Phelps did anything more or worse than millions of other people who the religious would have no issues proclaiming are in heaven now.
Let’s review:
[ol]
[li]He didn’t kill anyone[/li][li]He didn’t seriously harm anyone (rape,assault,etc) that anyone is claiming or has ever claimed.[/li][li]He followed the tenets of his religion how he saw them[/li][li]He actually did help his fellow man in the past and the present.[/li][li]He seems to have loved his family and taken care of them[/li][/ol]
Since those are the basics of being “good” then by the writings in the Christian Bible he should get a pass. Numerous other people (too numerous to mention here) haven’t even done a fraction of those (or worse, HAVE) and they are expected to have ascended to “heaven.”
Phelps simply stated openly what a lot of people think privately and he did so when it was socially inappropriate to do so. While I disagree with his actions and beliefs and I would have found him to be a reprehensible person, I don’t see where his actions would condemned him to “eternal torment” unless the bar for that punishment has been drastically lowered.
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/25 "2014-04-16T01:13:27Z")
Even ignoring the death-bed-ask-for-forgiveness get out of jail free card, in the Christianity I grew up in, he was no more sinful than anybody else. There wasn’t a “Thou shalt not be a dick” commandment.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/26 "2014-04-16T01:14:18Z")
New guy arrives in Heaven, and St. Peter shows him around:
“See, over there we have the Catholic section, here are the Methodists . . .”
“Wait, what’s behind that high wall over there?”
“Baptists. It would spoil it for them if they knew anyone else was here.”
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/27 "2014-04-16T02:12:15Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#):
>
> Phelps simply stated openly what a lot of people think privately and he did so when it was socially inappropriate to do so.
What he did that offended people so much is protest gay soldier’s funerals. No one cared when it was just gay people’s funerals; it was when he started going after soldiers that people got offended.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/28 "2014-04-16T02:26:06Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#):
>
> While I don’t believe in “heaven” (or supernatural deities for that matter) and I don’t support Phelp’s activities or his message I don’t see where Phelps did anything more or worse than millions of other people who the religious would have no issues proclaiming are in heaven now.
>
> Let’s review:
>
> [ol]
> [li]He didn’t kill anyone[/li][li]He didn’t seriously harm anyone (rape,assault,etc) that anyone is claiming or has ever claimed.[/li][li]He followed the tenets of his religion how he saw them[/li][li]He actually did help his fellow man in the past and the present.[/li][li]He seems to have loved his family and taken care of them[/li][/ol]
If by “taken care of,” you mean “[beat them with a mattock handle,](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps#Domestic_abuse)” then yeah, he was a real prince.
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> What he did that offended people so much is protest gay soldier’s funerals. No one cared when it was just gay people’s funerals; it was when he started going after soldiers that people got offended.
Actually, what got people upset was when he showed up at the funerals of straight soldiers, and _called_ them gay.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/29 "2014-04-16T02:48:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Fred Phelps is in a Heaven where the streets are paved with gold…which means that gold is common enough to make it worth nothing, and the roads are so soft that they are constantly in need of repair.
No he ain’t. Everyone knows that if you want to walk the heavenly streets of gold, you gotta know the password. ROLL TIDE ROLL!–Bear Bryant.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/30 "2014-04-16T03:22:52Z")
Maybe it’s like on _South Park_, and he went to Mormon heaven, where he’s forced to sit around and do arts and crafts for eternity?
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/31 "2014-04-16T03:59:21Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Maybe it’s like on _South Park_, and he went to Mormon heaven, where he’s forced to sit around and do arts and crafts for eternity?
"The mind is its own place, and of itself,
“Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.”
– Milton
GUILDENSTERN: Prison, my lord?
HAMLET: Denmark’s a prison.
ROSENCRANTZ: Then is the world one.
HAMLET: A goodly one, in which there are many confines, wards, and dungeons, Denmark being one o’ th’ worst.
ROSENCRANTZ: We think not so, my lord.
HAMLET: Why, then, ’tis none to you, for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. To me it is a prison.
ROSENCRANTZ: Why then, your ambition makes it one. 'Tis too narrow for your mind.
HAMLET: O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/32 "2014-04-16T04:02:18Z")
Unless he repented in the last moments of his life, the answer is no.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/33 "2014-04-16T04:09:14Z")
A guy dies and wakes up in Hell. He sees the big horned hairy goat-footed Devil standing over him, wearing a huge evil coprophagous grin.
“Errmm, I think there might’ve been some mistake, I, I wasn’t so **bad**. . .”
The Devil puts his arm around the guy’s shoulders, puts a cold beer in his hand, and says, “Aww, don’t you worry about it, son! We get a bad rap upstairs, but take it from me – Hell is a **party!** F’rinstance, let’s see, do you like to drink?”
“Well, I’ve been known to bend my elbow occasionally . . .”
“Awright awright, today is Sunday! What do you think we do in Hell on Sunday?!”
“Ermm . . . Go to church?”
“HAW! Church! This is Hell! On Sunday we **drink!** Beer, wine, whiskey, bourbon, vodka, tequila . . . We go swimmin’ in a brandy snifter the size of Lake Michigan! No hangover! Your’e gonna love it! You’re gonna love it, you’re gonna loooove Sunday! Let’s see . . . Do you like to do drugs?”
“Well, I might have snorted a line occasionally . . .”
“OK, lissentome lissentome! Tomorrow is Monday! On Monday, everybody in Hell does **drugs!** Everythin’, man! Pot, coke, smack, acid, ecstasy, horse tranks . . . We’ve got Timothy Leary workin’ on new recipes! If Jerry Garcia likes it, we all do it! You’re gonna love it, you’re gonna looooove Monday! Let’s see, are you gay?”
“Oh, no! I never swung **that** way!”
“Oooooh! You’re not gonna like it on Tuesday!”
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/34 "2014-04-16T04:24:07Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Unless he repented in the last moments of his life, the answer is no.
Kind of unfair, that.
I mean, that repentance don’t count unless you repent at some point during the brief period of your eternal existence when you don’t really know – you might have been told, but you don’t really **know** – that God exists and judges, or that repentance makes any difference.
**Really** unfair.
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of his own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players\* i.e., everybody, to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a dealer who won’t tell you the rules, and who _smiles all the time."_
– Terry Pratchett, _Good Omens_
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### Author:  [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/35 "2014-04-16T04:53:29Z")
“Everyone gets into heaven. We’re not _savages_.”
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### Author:  [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/36 "2014-04-16T05:05:00Z")
Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
He seems to fit the first but I don’t about the second clause.
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### Author:  [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/37 "2014-04-16T05:53:11Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#):
>
> While I don’t believe in “heaven” (or supernatural deities for that matter) and I don’t support Phelp’s activities or his message I don’t see where Phelps did anything more or worse than millions of other people who the religious would have no issues proclaiming are in heaven now.
>
> Let’s review:
>
> [ol]
> [li]He didn’t kill anyone[/li][li]He didn’t seriously harm anyone (rape,assault,etc) that anyone is claiming or has ever claimed.[/li][li]He followed the tenets of his religion how he saw them[/li][li]He actually did help his fellow man in the past and the present.[/li][li]He seems to have loved his family and taken care of them[/li][/ol]
>
> Since those are the basics of being “good” then by the writings in the Christian Bible he should get a pass. Numerous other people (too numerous to mention here) haven’t even done a fraction of those (or worse, HAVE) and they are expected to have ascended to “heaven.”
>
> Phelps simply stated openly what a lot of people think privately and he did so when it was socially inappropriate to do so. While I disagree with his actions and beliefs and I would have found him to be a reprehensible person, I don’t see where his actions would condemned him to “eternal torment” unless the bar for that punishment has been drastically lowered.
This is a beautiful example of how wildly different mankind’s definition of “goodness” is from God’s definition. Everything on your list is “filthy rags.”
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” (Isaiah 64:6)
Here’s what God thinks of Phelps and people like him–
“Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” (I John 3:15)
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/38 "2014-04-16T09:30:36Z")
He’s in gay leather/BDSM heaven. And he has a very visible tattoo that says “Torture me.”
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/39 "2014-04-16T10:13:21Z")
If I were a Christian, I would believe that he’s in Heaven right now - and so are lots of the gays and soldiers and other people that he badmouthed over the years, and he’d have an eternity now to think over how wrong he was in life and come to terms with that, and with those people, and with the glory of a God far more patient and forgiving than he ever was.
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### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/40 "2014-04-16T10:42:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> If I were a Christian, I would believe that he’s in Heaven right now - and so are lots of the gays and soldiers and other people that he badmouthed over the years, and he’d have an eternity now to think over how wrong he was in life and come to terms with that, and with those people, and with the glory of a God far more patient and forgiving than he ever was.
Surely not. If gays are in heaven, being gay is not a sin, and Phelps sinned pretty egregiously in his campaigning against them. His actions were certainly far worse than just being an ordinary homophobe. In most versions of Christianity, sinners do not get straight into heaven if they get in at all, and, as with earthly laws, ignorance of God’s law is no excuse (certainly not if you have been taught about it, as Phelps surely had).
I suppose it might be different if he sincerely repented before he died, but there is little reason to think he did. (Unless that is why his own “church” excommunicated him, but I doubt it.)
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