# Is Fred Phelps in Heaven now?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 15, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193 "2014-04-15T18:32:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/41 "2014-04-16T11:01:51Z")
> [@njtt](#):
>
> Surely not. If gays are in heaven, being gay is not a sin, and Phelps sinned pretty egregiously in his campaigning against them. His actions were certainly far worse than just being an ordinary homophobe. In most versions of Christianity, sinners do not get straight into heaven if they get in at all, and, as with earthly laws, ignorance of God’s law is no excuse (certainly not if you have been taught about it, as Phelps surely had).
If I were a Christian, I’d believe in a God capable of forgiving those sins.
---
### Author:  [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/42 "2014-04-16T12:02:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> If I were a Christian, I’d believe in a God capable of forgiving those sins.
If you were a Christian, you’d believe in a God capable of condemning anyone to eternal suffering for the most trivial of sins.
As for my opinion, I’m not a 100% believer in reincarnation, but lately I’ve been vigilant about killing every cockroach, gnat, earwig and slug that I encounter, just in case it’s him. :mad:
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/43 "2014-04-16T12:21:31Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#):
>
> If you were a Christian, you’d believe in a God capable of condemning anyone to eternal suffering for the most trivial of sins.
If I were a Christian, I wouldn’t. But I’m not, so I don’t anyway.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/44 "2014-04-16T12:24:34Z")
Phelps believes he is in heaven.
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### Author:  [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/45 "2014-04-16T12:52:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> If I were a Christian, I wouldn’t. But I’m not, so I don’t anyway.
Becoming a Christian requires belief in Eternal Hell. Otherwise, what’s the point of being Christian?
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/46 "2014-04-16T13:00:05Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Unless he repented in the last moments of his life, the answer is no.
Repented for what sins, precisely? What commandments did he violate?
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### Author:  [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/47 "2014-04-16T14:22:32Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#):
>
> Becoming a Christian requires belief in Eternal Hell. Otherwise, what’s the point of being Christian?
I dunno, maybe to study and act upon the words of Christ?
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### Author:  [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/48 "2014-04-16T16:33:07Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> What he did that offended people so much is protest gay soldier’s funerals. No one cared when it was just gay people’s funerals; it was when he started going after soldiers that people got offended.
> [@Miller](#):
>
> Actually, what got people upset was when he showed up at the funerals of straight soldiers, and _called_ them gay.
He didn’t call the soldiers gay (though he and his followers did picket gay peoples’ funerals, such as that of Matthew Shepard), he picketed soldiers’ funerals because they were representatives of a nation gone soft on gays.
It’s also not true that “no one cared” when it was just gay people - as the article also says, the protest at Shepard’s funeral “attracted global attention and condemnation.” Though it does say that the hottest protest was at their activities at military funerals.
[Cite](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/21/us/fred-phelps-founder-of-westboro-baptist-church-dies-at-84.html?_r=0)
[QUOTE=New York Times Obituary]
The Rev. Fred Phelps, the virulently antigay preacher who drew wide, scornful attention for staging demonstrations at military funerals as a way to proclaim his belief that God is punishing America for its tolerance of homosexuality, died here on Wednesday. He was 84.
[/QUOTE]
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### Author:  [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/49 "2014-04-16T18:14:57Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#):
>
> Becoming a Christian requires belief in Eternal Hell.
Cite?
Twenty three years ago I had a Religion professor in college who said something that perplexed me then, but I generally agree with now: “My reading of the Bible leads me to believe that there probably is a Hell. And if there is, it’s assuredly empty.”
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/50 "2014-04-16T18:40:19Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#):
>
> Becoming a Christian requires belief in Eternal Hell. …
**Becoming** a Christian required that? There is a test somewhere that is question is asked and if they select that they don’t believe hell is eternal they are not allowed into the Christian club, and the bread and wine for them won’t magically become flesh and blood to eat but just stay bread and wine ? 😕
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/51 "2014-04-16T18:46:33Z")
> [@Antinor01](#):
>
> Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
>
> He seems to fit the first but I don’t about the second clause.
Note that it does not say you won’t spend some time in Hell in the process Reference Jesus, Jonah, Lazarus (all spending time in hell).
With the raising from the dead gift Jesus gave all best are off and hell can be exited or not.
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### Author:  [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/52 "2014-04-16T18:54:59Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#):
>
> While I disagree with his actions and beliefs and I would have found him to be a reprehensible person, I don’t see where his actions would condemned him to “eternal torment” unless the bar for that punishment has been drastically lowered.
I could be wrong but isn’t the crime of not believing an action that will get you sent to hell? I mean in most of christian thought?
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/53 "2014-04-16T19:14:31Z")
> [@Critical1](#):
>
> I could be wrong but isn’t the crime of not believing an action that will get you sent to hell? I mean in most of christian thought?
[QUOTE=Mark 16:16]
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
[/QUOTE]
Note it does not say what will happen to those who believe but are not baptized.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/54 "2014-04-16T19:23:57Z")
> [@Flyer](#):
>
> This is a beautiful example of how wildly different mankind’s definition of “goodness” is from God’s definition.
I don’t really think **nevadaexile** speaks for all mankind.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/55 "2014-04-16T21:16:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> Note it does not say what will happen to those who believe but are not baptized.
Actually the only person in the Gospels who is absolutely guaranteed to go to heaven is someone who was never baptized - the thief on the cross next to Jesus.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/56 "2014-04-16T21:23:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Actually the only person in the Gospels who is absolutely guaranteed to go to heaven is someone who was never baptized - the thief on the cross next to Jesus.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
Heh, was about to use that one. (Luke 23:43)
Paul also seems to indicate that it’s a direct shot from death to eternity. 2 Corinthians 5:8. We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/57 "2014-04-16T21:58:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Actually the only person in the Gospels who is absolutely guaranteed to go to heaven is someone who was never baptized - the thief on the cross next to Jesus.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
And Jesus who was
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/58 "2014-04-19T00:12:52Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#):
>
> It’s also not true that “no one cared” when it was just gay people - as the article also says, the protest at Shepard’s funeral “attracted global attention and condemnation.” Though it does say that the hottest protest was at their activities at military funerals.
I have seen that group protesting decades before Matthew Shepard’s funeral. I even attempted to debate them before I knew better. Essentially, very few non-gay people gave a shit.
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### Author:  [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/59 "2014-04-19T01:18:59Z")
> [@panache45](#):
>
> I have seen that group protesting decades before Matthew Shepard’s funeral. I even attempted to debate them before I knew better. Essentially, very few non-gay people gave a shit.
Since Matthew Shepard was a watershed moment and a game-changer for LGBT civil rights, I wouldn’t hold it against the world for not paying attention to anti-gay hate groups before then. It happened more than 15 years ago, after all.
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### Author:  [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/60 "2014-04-19T01:26:30Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> His God, and his heaven? You bet.
Sure, so long as no one in America is having gay sex.
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