# Is Fred Phelps in Heaven now?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 15, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193 "2014-04-15T18:32:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/61 "2014-04-19T01:30:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Matthew 7: 21-23
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/62 "2014-04-19T08:02:28Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#):
>
> Since Matthew Shepard was a watershed moment and a game-changer for LGBT civil rights, I wouldn’t hold it against the world for not paying attention to anti-gay hate groups before then. It happened more than 15 years ago, after all.
Would you hold it against the world for not paying attention to anti-semites before the Holocaust? It happened more than 69 years ago, after all.
Hate is hate, and it behooves all of us to pay attention to it.
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### Author:  [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/63 "2014-04-19T08:14:21Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#):
>
> Sure, so long as no one in America is having gay sex.
Get me a nice place in Puerto Vallarta and I’ll do my part by moving away.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/64 "2014-04-19T12:40:35Z")
Actually, it is against Christian doctrine to say that Hell is empty. The Bible says that “Satan and his angels” were sent there, so that implies a population of at least three. Nearly empty, however, is still a possibility. Phelps (or Hitler, or Judas) being in Heaven is consistent with doctrine. That said, though, I’m not going to be the one to canonize any of them.
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### Author:  [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/65 "2014-04-19T12:50:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Actually the only person in the Gospels who is absolutely guaranteed to go to heaven is someone who was never baptized - the thief on the cross next to Jesus.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
This might be a silly question, but how do we know that the thief wasn’t baptized? It seems unlikely, but he could have been right?
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/66 "2014-04-19T13:57:53Z")
> [@butterfiles](#):
>
> This might be a silly question, but how do we know that the thief wasn’t baptized? It seems unlikely, but he could have been right?
Only negative evidence. His name is never mentioned as a follower of Jesus or John the Baptist - only that he was a thief (meaning, perhaps, a political adversary of the Roman occupation). It’s possible that he was arrested along with Barabbas.
But no connection is described. Interestingly, Simon of Cyrene is mentioned in all three Synoptic Gospels as the one who carried Jesus’ cross, and Mark, considered the earliest of the Gospels, mentions Simon as father of Alexander and Rufus. Someone named Rufus is named in Romans. It is possible that it is the same person, and that is why the name is mentioned, or perhaps either Rufus or Alexander was well-known in the early Church. But no such connection is made for the other men crucified with Jesus.
So it is possible, but there is no evidence that he was baptized. Jesus never baptized anyone, and John the Baptist was long dead by that point.
So either it didn’t happen, or else the Gospel writers didn’t know about it.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/67 "2014-04-20T21:01:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Actually the only person in the Gospels who is absolutely guaranteed to go to heaven is someone who was never baptized - the thief on the cross next to Jesus.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
Well, Lazarus is described as being in heaven, and (if you believe the Mariological interpretation of Revelation 12, like Catholics do) Mary is there as well. But you’re right that the Bible is notably cagey about stating exactly who is in heaven or hell. For good reason.
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### Author:  [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/68 "2014-04-20T23:03:40Z")
Speaking of the thief on the cross, does anyone know what types of thievery would have been punishable by crucifixion at that time?
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### Author:  [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/69 "2014-04-20T23:10:29Z")
He’s dead, he’s not anywhere.
His body is wherever they left it.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/70 "2014-04-20T23:29:55Z")
**buterflies** , I suppose he may have been a highwayman. One thing to remember when it comes to the crucifixion story, is that part of what’s supposed to impress about Jesus getting it like that is not just that it was extra cruel or painful, but that it was vile and shameful. It was how you executed rebel slaves, highwaymen, deserters; the death method for scum.
> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> Note that it does not say you won’t spend some time in Hell in the process Reference Jesus, Jonah, Lazarus (all spending time in hell).
However that’s often explained as being the usage of the term word “hell” as in the sense of Hades/Sheol, the general Abode of the Dead, as opposed to the more common concept of Hell as the Place of the Damned; and that Jesus’ descent into Hell refers to the old Christian belief of the [Harrowing of Hell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell), wherein the Christ releases the believers who died before the consummation of his sacrifice.
(This version was for the longest time also a justification of the notion of Limbo as an abode for the non-baptized righteous or innocent, and why Dante placed it in Hell’s front foyer, so to speak – they remain in isolation from God due to Original sin, but no need to put them to the fire for no fault of their own.)
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### Author:  [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-fred-phelps-in-heaven-now/686193/71 "2014-04-22T18:49:11Z")
Phelps is in heaven. However, considering who else is there with him he thinks he’s in hell.
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