# Is Galt's Gulch real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 1, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901 "2013-06-01T23:11:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/21 "2014-09-15T17:50:24Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > This isn’t a real-estate scam in the sense that you really are purchasing the land. And the guy doing it may actually believe his shtick. But no, this is never going to turn into Galt’s Gulch, because if very many wealthy people move there, Chile will tax the crap out of them. Perhaps not; in the interests of the world community Chile could say: “_OK, you can have this land and water; but government will have nothing to do with you, nor you with government. Goodbye, my friends._”. Six months later, sleeping peaceful dreams of their superiority, or strolling hand-in-hand animatedly discussing their brilliance, or hiking into the mountains to gather rare herbs and meditate the big questions, like ‘_Why I am more awesome than God ?_’, and ‘_Whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath_’ — hired security suddenly vanishes away as the sky suddenly darkens and noisens with helicopters engorged with another type of Latin-American men, along with their chiquitas, booze and machine rifles, ready to rock. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/22 "2014-09-15T18:38:00Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Is everything based on Rand’s works full of fail? Ask the founders of [Founders College](http://chronicle.com/article/The-Cautionary-Tale-of-a/125452/). ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/23 "2014-09-15T18:54:55Z")
already been said ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/24 "2014-09-15T21:42:02Z")
> [@dataguy](#): > > Well, here’s an [update](http://www.alternet.org/books/what-happened-when-some-libertarians-went-build-ayn-rands-vision-paradise?akid=12243.225201.rG_oTr&rd=1&src=newsletter1019358&t=5&paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark)on the Galt’s Gulch Chile project. > > Not surprisingly, it did not go well–at least for the investors. Heh heh. There’s an objectivist born every minute. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/25 "2014-09-16T23:40:47Z")
You know, for people who claim their skills at getting things done are so valuable that the world couldn’t function without them, it’s interesting how these guys can’t ever get any of their projects up and running. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/26 "2014-09-17T00:39:04Z")
You can be the most hard core objectivist possible, and still why the hell would you want to move to a country where none of your friends and family are? It makes no sense, political ideology is trumped by practical reality everytime. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/27 "2014-09-17T01:20:00Z")
**Dataguy** , your collectivist friends are wrong. They have been affected by the collectivism of a collectivist age. Yes, **dataguy** , there is a GALT’S GULCH. It exists as certainly as self-interest and egoism and selfishness exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no GALT’S GULCH. It would be as dreary as if there were no **dataguys**. There would no be heroically self-centered creators, who are the only people who make anything of true worth. The eternal light with which individualism fills the world would be extinguished! No GALT’S GULCH! There is certainly no God, but there is a GALT’S GULCH! It exists, and it exists forever! A thousand years from now, **dataguy** , nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, it will continue to make glad the heart of selfish people everywhere! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/28 "2014-09-17T01:36:04Z")
Well, [galtsgulchchile.com](http://galtsgulchchile.com) is still an active site, with basically no content (“contact us for more information”). At the bottom, it says “Site hosted by WEBLAND.CH”. Hmmm, convenient that, I know I would feel better to have my money going to a country that knows how to handle money. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/29 "2014-09-17T04:08:51Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > **Dataguy** , your collectivist friends are wrong. They have been affected by the collectivism of a collectivist age. > > Yes, **dataguy** , there is a GALT’S GULCH. It exists as certainly as self-interest and egoism and selfishness exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no GALT’S GULCH. It would be as dreary as if there were no **dataguys**. There would no be heroically self-centered creators, who are the only people who make anything of true worth. The eternal light with which individualism fills the world would be extinguished! > > No GALT’S GULCH! There is certainly no God, but there is a GALT’S GULCH! It exists, and it exists forever! A thousand years from now, **dataguy** , nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, it will continue to make glad the heart of selfish people everywhere! Are you familiar with P.J. O’Rourke’s [comparison](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/586481/posts) of God and Santa Claus? I don’t know which is worse - that these people are lying or that they really believe this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/30 "2014-09-17T08:46:56Z")
> [@](#): > > As future residents of Galt’s Gulch Chile take ownership of their dream lots, and subsequent dream homes, the numerous amenities of the community will be incorporated, including a championship-caliber golf course, community clubhouses, tennis facilities, spa and fitness centers, hiking trails, horse facilities and trails, vineyards, underground storage facilities, downtown main street shopping, farmer’s market, 24-hour guard-gated security and many others. One does wonder who’s going to do the laundry at the spa/fitness center, grow the vegetables, man the security guard stations, and clean up the horse shit. Chilean nationals, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/31 "2014-09-17T09:00:25Z")
Ah well, grifters gotta grift. The [Gawker](http://gawker.com/ayn-rands-capitalist-paradise-is-now-a-greedy-land-grab-1627574870) article quotes the words of one fraud victim: [INDENT]Months later, in a Skype conference, I asked the then-GGC-alienated salesman, “When you ‘sold’ us the property, when you printed out a photo from your phone that read ‘Wendy’s tree,’ did you know you could not legally sell us the lot you were offering?” He said, “That is correct.” [/INDENT] _Caveat emptor_, baby. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/32 "2014-09-17T09:17:33Z")
Criminy…whatever happened to building your separatist colony in a secret undersea habitat like a _normal_ person? (No over-taxation—just friendly crustaceans!) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/33 "2014-09-17T15:54:02Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > One does wonder who’s going to do the laundry at the spa/fitness center, grow the vegetables, man the security guard stations, and clean up the horse shit. > > Chilean nationals, maybe? [Refer to the brief discussion on the subject here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=716024) ---
**Author:** ![dataguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eada6e/32.png) [@dataguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dataguy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/34 "2014-09-17T19:59:17Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > **Dataguy** , your collectivist friends are wrong. They have been affected by the collectivism of a collectivist age. > > Yes, **dataguy** , there is a GALT’S GULCH. It exists as certainly as self-interest and egoism and selfishness exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no GALT’S GULCH. It would be as dreary as if there were no **dataguys**. There would no be heroically self-centered creators, who are the only people who make anything of true worth. The eternal light with which individualism fills the world would be extinguished! > > No GALT’S GULCH! There is certainly no God, but there is a GALT’S GULCH! It exists, and it exists forever! A thousand years from now, **dataguy** , nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, it will continue to make glad the heart of selfish people everywhere! I can’t tell if you’re a Randian, or just poking fun at them–mainly because of the way you wrapped up with the line about “selfish people everywhere”. Care to clear up my confusion? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/35 "2014-09-17T20:15:43Z")
> [@dataguy](#): > > I can’t tell if you’re a Randian, or just poking fun at them–mainly because of the way you wrapped up with the line about “selfish people everywhere”. Care to clear up my confusion? [Yes, **dataguy** , there is a parody clause](http://classiclit.about.com/od/christmasliteratur1/a/aa_yessanta.htm) ---
**Author:** ![dataguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eada6e/32.png) [@dataguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dataguy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/36 "2014-09-17T21:20:37Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [Yes, **dataguy** , there is a parody clause](http://classiclit.about.com/od/christmasliteratur1/a/aa_yessanta.htm) Thanks for the link. That clears it up. And, well done MEBuckner. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/37 "2014-09-25T23:09:35Z")
[Vice magazine](http://www.vice.com/read/atlas-mugged-922-v21n10) reports on Galt’s Gulch: [INDENT]Now, two years after its founding, the would-be paradise is ensnared in a set of personal conflicts, mainly centered on Johnson. Instead of living in a picturesque valley selling Galt’s Gulch–branded juice, the libertarian founders are accusing one another of being drunks, liars, and sociopaths. GGC’s would-be inhabitants have called Johnson a “weirdo,” a “pathological liar,” “insane,” a “scammer,” and other, similar things. Some shareholders are pursuing legal action in an effort to remove him from the project, a drastic measure for antigovernment types to take. [/INDENT] AFAICT libertarians in the comments section agree that there are absolutely no conclusions to be drawn from this article and this fiasco does NOT imply that locating a utopia based upon a libertarian work of fiction in a socialist middle income country is a problematic undertaking. Nor may I add does it suggest anything about the gullibility of these personalities. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901/38 "2014-09-25T23:28:05Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Criminy…whatever happened to building your separatist colony in a secret undersea habitat like a _normal_ person? > > ( **No over-taxation—just friendly crustaceans**!) (emphasis mine) And [Big Daddies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioShock), of course. 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-galts-gulch-real/659901.md?page=1)