# "Is Gay the New Black?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2008, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gay-the-new-black/476693 "2008-12-11T06:51:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 95
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gay-the-new-black/476693/95 "2008-12-15T19:58:18Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Brickbacon, bridging from your second citation, doesn’t it speak volumes that gays have not even been able to ASK for the right to form a legitimate family unit until recently? But did gay themselves, in a general sense, desire to be married? Equal marriage rights wasn’t a yearning that was ignored by the heterosexual community. You can’t really apply today’s thinking to bygone eras. It seems to be that most homosexuals (at the time) reluctantly accepted the societal limitations that that part of their identity would be expressed solely in a sexual manner. That the need to for a larger gay culture (ie. parades, art, music, community) was unnecessary- or at least not practical at the time and place. While that pathology is largely a result of the discrimination the GLBT community has faced (faces), you can’t ignore that fact that the community has only recently emerged from that repressive existence. > [@Miltonyz](#): > > November 2nd was a day I lost a little bit more faith in my fellow man. African American voters voted by a convincing margin against alowing gays to marry. I believe it’s been cited at 70%. A community that as little a fourty years ago was eating firehouses in the streets trying to gain equal rights. A community that had dogs set upon them. A community whose leaders died in order that maybe their children would be able to have a better life. And yet even as they struggle to this day under the weight of instituional racism, the community as a whole goes gladly to the polls and denys others their rights. I share your regret, maybe even more so since I am Black. But this is where I think most people don’t understand that breakdown that is happening here on a fundamental level. Most people, Black or otherwise, do not seek to make things harder for others. They are not sadists, and they don’t actively hate large groups of people. On a basic level, people don’t like change, being told what to do, being told they are bad, or having others question what they hold deal. You can get people behind equal rights, access, and treatment so long as you frame the issue in a way that allows them to feel as though they are gaining something too. In a way that makes them feel like they won something too. The gay community has not done that effectively. They tell people they misunderstand their own religion, are bigots, and that the gender roles are repressive, etc. All of that is true to some extent, but it will not convince most people to come into the tent. This is also complicated by the fact it’s hard to do good PR in an information society. The civil rights movement succeeded largely because each milestone was carefully crafted. MLK reputation wasn’t sullied by bloggers and nosy reporters, Rosa Parks could be chosen as the face of the Montgomery Bus Boycott, etc. That’s part of the reason people are so protective of it. > [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Or adoption rights, or being flatly unelectable for high office (e.g., as President), etc. We’ve already addressed adoption rights. According to [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_adoption), no state explicitly prevents a LGBT person from adopting a child. I should note that the situation isn’t since there are states that prevent couples from adopting jointly. Second, your point about the Presidency is speculative. Many didn’t think we’d elect a Black president either. If the right gay person came along, it’s definitely possible. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > To many people–even non-homophobic people–the latter assertion doesn’t follow from the former. If you think being gay is unnatural and therefore a form of freakishness, the failure to accept this argument is even greater. Very well said. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gay-the-new-black/476693)._