# Is General Aviation grounded too? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2001, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193 "2001-09-12T23:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/1 "2001-09-12T23:38:43Z")
I saw what looked like a Piper Milibu flying today. Usually the skies above So. Cal. are full of small General Aviation aircraft. But that Piper was the first thing I’ve seen in the air for a while. Even the birds seem to be gone. I know that the airlines are grounded, but does the grounding apply to Joe Pilot and his Cessna as well? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/2 "2001-09-13T00:10:31Z")
yup. At least in Wisconsin, and I expect nationally. ---
**Author:** ![starfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@starfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starfish)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/3 "2001-09-13T00:17:31Z")
Yes, the grounding applies to all aviation. That was probably someone who took off from a small field without an air traffic controller. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/4 "2001-09-13T00:23:40Z")
I live under a principal “thoroughfare” for one Life Flight (we’re directly between a hospital and two town centers) and I’m currently working at another hospital many miles away. I haven’t heard _any_ turbines or S-72 rotors in the last day and a half. _Maybe_ people simply took a break from getting hurt for a day or so, but I can’t remember the last night that I heard _no_ overflights. \*(OTOH, when I started out to work, this morning, there was a single contrail from one horizon to the other just south of Cleveland–probably some government official heading across the country.) ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/5 "2001-09-13T01:03:17Z")
> [@](#): > > (OTOH, when I started out to work, this morning, there was a single contrail from one horizon to the other just south of Cleveland–probably some government official heading across the country.) Just goes to show that even in this time of crisis, our nation will not be deterred from its top secret contrail poisoning conspiracy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/6 "2001-09-13T01:27:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by starfish \* > Yes, the grounding applies to all aviation. That was probably someone who took off from a small field without an air traffic controller. Non-tower field has _ **nothing** _ to do with it - as I’ve mentioned on a few threads already, my husband was listening to the aviation radio when the order to land was broadcast. It clearly applied equally well to GA and fields without towers. The one gentleman who did not comply was told to land immediately or be forced down. The notice was also sent over DUATS, on AOPA’s website, and everywhere else on the aviation Internet. When they said everybody on the ground they meant _everybody_ According to someone on an aviation e-mail list I frequent, earlier today, a CFI and student in Texas who took off thinking the ban had been lifted at 11 am local time were brought back to ground under military escort and arrested. I know from people who live near O’Hare that at least one civilian flight took off yesterday afternoon, and officials confirmed this was a flight of emergency personnel destined for the lower Manhattan operation. If you see a civilian flight take off it’s under special clearance to assist in the current emergency. Those are the only exceptions made to the total flight ban. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/7 "2001-09-13T01:36:37Z")
I’ve been thinking of “re-enlisting” in the Civil Air Patrol. Maybe I should take some of my inheritence, and instead of investing it, buy a Cessna 172. (Not very bright, buying an airplane, but “I must leave this planet, if only for an hour.”) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/8 "2001-09-13T01:51:01Z")
This is having a real impact here in Alaska, where many Interior villages have no means of travel or supply, except by small plane. Moreover, there are many hunting parties that are stranded in the Bush, where they were dropped off by small aircraft; they probably don’t even know why the planes didn’t return to pick them up at the appointed time. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/9 "2001-09-13T01:59:37Z")
Yes. As I mentioned in another thread, we were shocked today when two fighter jets came shrieking across the sky above us to race down to the airspace above our local airport. Turns out a small plane was up, and hadn’t cleared their flight with the right authorities. It was on government law enforcement business, as it turns out, and the fighters left. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/10 "2001-09-13T01:59:43Z")
Gotta wonder about Hawaii, too. There’s not an overland option, there - it’s either by sea or by air ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/11 "2001-09-13T02:22:50Z")
Big countries the USA and Canada. I would think that if you really wanted to go flying you could. Who is going to know if someone has taken off from a farm paddock in a Piper Cub and is flying either out of radar airspace or is flying low under radar coverage, but then, who is going to care? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/12 "2001-09-13T02:26:40Z")
Michigan Radio News reportted that SurvivalFlight (medivac) based out of U of M hospitals was cleared to fly their helicopters, but they have to report _each_ takeoff and fly with military escorts. ---
**Author:** ![zydecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e480ec/32.png) [@zydecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zydecat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/13 "2001-09-13T02:45:15Z")
All aircraft in NY are grounded unless they have are involved in the rescue/military/police/humanitarian mission. If you are stupid enough to take off without permission, you will be intercepted, directed to land and arrested. You wanna try this in Iowa, you might get away with it. I wouldn’t try it around here. It would be like jumping a pogo stick across the Korean DMZ. You might make a bounce or two but you won’t make it far. It happened once tonite as a civil air patrol aircraft mistakenly took up _someone_ to take some pictures. You cannot fly under the radar around NYC. It is possible to avoid ground based radar. You will not avoid the airborne radar. What appears to be a general aviation aircraft may be a state owned aircraft carrying government officials or aircraft carrying blood donations. Every aircraft airborne has special clearance. If you try to conciously evade the directives to remain on the ground, the pilot with his finger on the F-16’s trigger might get a little itchy. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/14 "2001-09-13T03:30:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skogcat \* > Big countries the USA and Canada. I would think that if you really wanted to go flying you could. Who is going to know if someone has taken off from a farm paddock in a Piper Cub and is flying either out of radar airspace or is flying low under radar coverage, but then, who is going to care? Well, let’s see – There are a surprising number of military installations in the middle of “nowhere” - all of which have radar. Since the air traffic controllers aren’t controlling more than a handful of airplanes they may well be parked at radar stations looking for terrorists. There are military aircraft patrolling the skies. Even farmers have neighbors. They may notice an airplane flying overhead and call the authorities. There have been scattered reports of small aircraft being forced down today. Personally, I wouldn’t try it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/15 "2001-09-13T05:11:58Z")
Ok, I guess the USA is a bit different to where I’ve been flying where the terrain is very mountainous and there are a lot of gaps in radar coverage and you can quite happily fly around large expanses of unoccupied land and no one would know about it, also where there is a much smaller military presence. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/16 "2001-09-13T10:22:32Z")
I am on Maui right now. The skys are completly quiet, and none of the tour helicopters are flying, but this morning at least there were staff and pilots waiting in the heliport. I suspect they will go in tommorow morning and wait. Air travel is a major thing here. Not only do people need it to reach the mainland, but also to travel inter-island. There aren’t really any ferries or anything, so we are all kind of stuck where we are. We can’t even send mail! I think everyone on the islands is eagerly awaiting news regarding the air traffic ban. There are plenty of vacationers stuck here, but it is the off season, so it’s not bad. Today, at least, people seemed okay with the delays. They simply stayed in their resorts and tried to enjoy themselves. There are worse places to be stranded. I suspect that if the air ban lasts much longer, they will start to get pretty antsy. I have a flight out on Friday and I know I am hoping to heck that things get up and running by then. Reports say that it is likely that inter-island traffic is likely to be the first thing allowed to resume. ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/17 "2001-09-13T22:22:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fear Itself \* > \*\*This is having a real impact here in Alaska… there are many hunting parties that are stranded in the Bush, where they were dropped off by small aircraft; they probably don’t even know why the planes didn’t return to pick them up at the appointed time. \*\* Did you hear about the guy who was out hunting, then flew his own plane to McGrath on Wednesday? A pair of F-15s flew by and ordered him to land immediately. He had no idea there was anything amiss. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/18 "2001-09-17T00:12:33Z")
I’ve heard a few helicopters over the last couple of days (probably police) but I haven’t heard any GA aircraft flying around. ---
**Author:** ![Grok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Grok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grok)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/19 "2001-09-17T01:04:59Z")
I talked to Flight Service yesterday afternoon, and the briefer told me they expect a decision about General Aviation in the next day or two. He told me IFR was already permitted, but no VFR. And the area around the New York Class B is off limits. I’m pretty close to NYC, and have flown the Hudson River down to the Statue of Liberty many times. However, I suspect that’s going to be out of bounds pretty soon. Glad I learned to fly when I did. It’s strange to think that the last time I flew that route, about three weeks ago, turned out to be the last time I would ever see the WTC as it was. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193/20 "2001-09-21T17:39:55Z")
Just talked to Long Beach FSDO. They said the only GA flying in the L.A. area are the cops. Even the news guys are down. This is getting rediculous. The longer GA remains grounded, the greater the terrorists’ victory. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-general-aviation-grounded-too/81193.md?page=2)