# Is George Bush convinced that God is on his side? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122 "2003-04-25T14:42:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/1 "2003-04-25T14:42:14Z")
**Mandelstam** made this assertion on anther thread. **tomndebb** supported her, saying he would have made the same judgement of Bush’s perception of his relationship with God only by listening to his speeches. I say it’s a totally bogus charge. Bush has never said any such thing. I challenge those who believe it’s true to prove their case by finding cites. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/2 "2003-04-25T15:07:26Z")
From the other thread: From David Frum’s book The Right Man, recounting his experiences as a Bush speechwriter: He says Bush told him “there is only one reason I am in the Oval Office…I found faith. I found God. I am here because of the power of prayer.” [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2921345.stm]Before September 11, President George W Bush kept his evangelical Christian beliefs largely to himself. Bush convinced God wants him to engage the forces of evil He had turned to God at the age of 40 as a way of kicking alcoholism, and his faith had kept him on the straight and narrow ever since, giving him the drive to reach the White House. But all that changed on the day of the attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center. Those close to Mr Bush say that day he discovered his life’s mission. He became convinced that God was calling him to engage the forces of evil in battle, and this one time baseball-team owner from Texas did not shrink from the task. “We are in a conflict between good and evil. And America will call evil by its name,” Mr Bush told West Point graduates in a speech last year. In this battle, he placed his country firmly on the side of the angels. [/quote] Is there any basis to believe otherwise that you can cite? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/3 "2003-04-25T15:07:26Z")
\*\*ElvisL1ves \*\* responded on the other thread. I will respond to his post here, in order to keep the topic together. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*[From David Frum’s book _The Right Man_, recounting his experiences as a Bush speechwriter: He says Bush told him “there is only one reason I am in the Oval Office…I found faith. I found God. I am here because of the power of prayer.” \*\*This quote shows that Bush takes religion seriously. I agree that Bush is guided by his religious beliefs. That is to say, he tries to be on God’s side. That’s different from saying that he thinks God is on his side. Trying to be on God’s side means doing the right thing. Believing that God is on your side means thinking that you are always right, regardless of what you do. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > [[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2921345.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2921345.stm)]Before September 11, President George W Bush kept his evangelical Christian beliefs largely to himself. > > > > Bush convinced God wants him to engage the forces of evil > > He had turned to God at the age of 40 as a way of kicking alcoholism, and his faith had kept him on the straight and narrow ever since, giving him the drive to reach the White House. > > > > But all that changed on the day of the attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center. > > > > \*\*Those close to Mr Bush say that day he discovered his life’s mission. > > > > He became convinced that God was calling him to engage the forces of evil in battle\*\*, and this one time baseball-team owner from Texas did not shrink from the task. > > > > “We are in a conflict between good and evil. And America will call evil by its name,” Mr Bush told West Point graduates in a speech last year. > > > > In this battle, he placed his country firmly on the side of the angels. > > _Who_ fell for _what_ lie? Is there any basis to believe he is not guided by his own religious beliefs? There is much to say he is. Good try, **Elvis**. However, the actual Bush quotes in your BBC cite do not support the idea that Bush thinks God is on his side. Note that the key allegations in your cited article come from anonymous sources: “those close to Mr Bush.” Bush gives a great many speeches and public statements. If Bush really feels this way, we should be able to find it in his own words. ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/4 "2003-04-25T15:10:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\ ***Mandelstam** made this assertion on anther thread. **tomndebb** supported her, saying he would have made the same judgement of Bush’s perception of his relationship with God only by listening to his speeches. > > I say it’s a totally bogus charge. Bush has never said any such thing. > > I challenge those who believe it’s true to prove their case by finding cites. \*\* There was an issue of Newsweek dedicated to Bush and his faith last month. As far as I recall, all of Bush’s words about serving God were from his speeches, but there were several interviews with close friends of Bush - including the man who helped him become a devout Christian and continues to converse with him on faith - who said that he believes that what he is doing politically is God’s will. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/5 "2003-04-25T15:35:11Z")
your title asks if Bush is convinced that God is on his site, in your OP, you ask for cite’s he’s actually said so. Can’t give you verbatim statements, but have a look at this. It doth imply a certain religious arrogance "In two recent speeches, at the annual convention of the National Religious Broadcasters and at the National Prayer Breakfast, Bush said he welcomed faith to solve the nations’ deepest problems and was greeted on both occasions with “amens.” To some, however, he sounded more like an evangelical Christian minister than an elected political leader. In discussing a likely war in Iraq with Australian Prime Minister John Howard this week, Bush said freedom for the Iraqi people is not a gift the United States can provide, but instead “liberty is God’s gift to every human being in the world.” To some, his word’s implied that a war against Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein would be a divinely endorsed act of liberation. Going beyond religious references even of such presidents as Abraham Lincoln - who once said he hoped to be on God’s side rather than calling for God to be on his side - Bush told religious broadcasters this week: “We’re being challenged. We’re meeting those challenges because of our faith.” The White House defends the president’s language as expressions of his personal beliefs and says he has every right to speak with fervor about his faith." site: [http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200303/msg00059.html](http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200303/msg00059.html) "By contrast, it is hard to imagine President George W. Bush making a speech on the subject of Iraq - or for that matter, any subject - without mentioning the deity and the war between good and evil in which He or She is apparently enlisted on our side. It has become Bush’s trademark. “We do not know … all the ways of Providence, yet we can trust in them, placing our confidence in the loving God behind all of life and all of history,” he said during his State of the Union address last month. “If this is not evil, then evil has no meaning,” he said of the Iraqi enemy at another point in the speech. “We feel our reliance on the Creator who made us,” he said in a radio address in March. “We place our sorrows and cares before Him, seeking God’s mercy. We ask forgiveness for our failures, seeking the renewal He can bring.” site:[http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/columnists/ny-livit163133081feb16,0,3122848.column?coll=ny-li-columnists](http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/columnists/ny-livit163133081feb16,0,3122848.column?coll=ny-li-columnists) "\_\_\_NASHVILLE, Tenn. (ABP)–God is on America’s side in the war on terrorism, U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft told religious broadcasters Feb. 19. \_\_\_Ashcroft filled in for President George W. Bush, who had been invited to address the Feb. 16-19 National Religious Broadcasters convention at Opryland Hotel but was traveling in Asia. \_\_\_Bush still addressed the meeting in a videotaped message, however, applauding religious broadcasters as players in his faith-based and community initiative announced last year. \_\_\_Bush described his proposal as an effort to “rally the armies of compassion and help solve the problems in our country.” \_\_\_“I salute all of you for doing your part to make this a better nation,” Bush said. \_\_\_Echoing themes the president has used frequently since the September terrorist attacks, Ashcroft described America’s war on terrorism as a battle between good and evil. \_\_\_“As President Bush has reminded us, we know God is not neutral in the battle of good and evil,” Ashcroft said. \_\_\_Governments do not grant freedom, he said; it comes from God. “The guarding of freedom that God grants is the noble cause of the Department of Justice.” site: [http://www.baptiststandard.com/2002/3\_4/pages/ashcroft.html](http://www.baptiststandard.com/2002/3_4/pages/ashcroft.html) "Those close to Mr Bush say that day he discovered his life’s mission. He became convinced that God was calling him to engage the forces of evil in battle, and this one time baseball-team owner from Texas did not shrink from the task. ‘Angels’ country’ “We are in a conflict between good and evil. And America will call evil by its name,” Mr Bush told West Point graduates in a speech last year. In this battle, he placed his country firmly on the side of the angels. “There is wonder-working power in the goodness and idealism of the American people,” he said in this year’s State of the Union address. " site: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2921345.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2921345.stm) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/6 "2003-04-25T15:38:39Z")
Yup. President Bush said to God “Did you hear what I just said to Syria? That goes for you too!” And God said, “Don’t worry, I am on your side all the way”. So Bush knows God is on his side. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/7 "2003-04-25T15:43:49Z")
Is Bush convinced that God is on his side? If by this you mean that Bush feels his actions are morally justifiable according to his Christian beliefs, then sure. Is this supposed to be a bad thing? I’d think that any time a religious person does something they believe is keeping within the morals dictated by their religion, they would think that God/Allah/Buddha/whoever was on “their side”. For the life of me, I can’t understand why this should be considered an insult. Unless what is meant by “Bush believes God is on his side” is that Bush believes that morality springs from him, and that God has wisely chosen to align himself with Bush, but to claim that is just silly. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/8 "2003-04-25T15:45:09Z")
Quoth **december** : > [@](#): > > Trying to be on God’s side means doing the right thing. Believing that God is on your side means thinking that you are always right, regardless of what you do. That’s merely semantic nit-picking, not to mention a straw-man. Just because someone believes “God is on his side” for one issue does not mean he believes himself right in all cases. Quoth [Bush](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/10/20011004.html): > [@](#): > > This is a strong coalition. It’s a strong coalition because we’ve got great leadership, but it’s a strong coalition because we’re right. Because it’s a strong coalition. Because we’ve made it clear, this is not a war between Christianity or Judaism and Islam. As a matter of fact, the teachings of Islam make it clear that peace is important, that compassion is a part of life. This is a war between good and evil. And we have made it clear to the world that we will stand strong on the side of good, and we expect other nations to join us. (Applause.) > > This is not a war between our world and their world. It is a war to save the world. And people now understand that. And I want to thank you for all your work of making that simple, yet profound, mission clear. And [Bush again](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/20021121-8.html)… > [@](#): > > Listen, if you lived under slavery and subjugation, and you’re free, there’s a spirit. There’s a strength of purpose. There’s a remembrance of what it’s like. There’s no gray areas between good and evil. That’s an important spirit in NATO. Lithuania brings a wonderful spirit of strength of purpose, of endurance. Thus… Statement 1: We are on a “mission” to save the world. Statement 2: There is no gray area between good and evil. Obvious fact: Bush believes in God. Rational Posit: God is ultimate good by definition, and saving the world is good. Sensible Conclusion: Bush thinks God is on our (or his) side _at least in the context of the war on terrorism_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/9 "2003-04-25T15:52:47Z")
**december** , are you seriously trying to draw a distinction between claiming to be on God’s side and claiming to have God on your side? You still haven’t responded to the question of what reason there is to think anything else about Bush’s beliefs. Got anything? Jeff, the issue isn’t really being guided by religious belief as such, even a divisive one that puts the rights and aspirations of adherents of other, or no, religions at a lower level. It’s the lack of humility that follows from it - the arrogance that tells such a person that he cannot be mistaken and therefore that no other views need be considered. Believing one has God on one’s side is a far different thing from _knowing_ it, and can have very different results, but it feels exactly the same and often looks the same to the uncritical. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/10 "2003-04-25T15:58:06Z")
One could turn the question around: do you think that GWB does stuff as President that he thinks is against the will of God? If not, then surely he would feel that God supported his action. To answer your question more directly, I must say that you’re asking for proof of an impression, which is a subjective thing and therefore impossible to prove. However, I did a quick google and can give you a few examples of things that might give one that impression - I certainly have it.[Green Tree, Aug. 5, 2002](http://www.post-gazette.com/localnews/20020806bushtextp9.asp) > [@](#): > > And that’s another part of the spirit of America I want to herald, and that is the prayers that were said by thousands of your citizens – I mean, people from all walks of life. They didn’t say, I’m a Republican, therefore, I get to pray; or I’m a Democrat, I pray. I don’t care about either of them, I pray. Everybody prayed. A lot of people – if I say everybody, I don’t know if everybody prayed. I can tell you, a lot prayed. A lot prayed for your safety, a lot prayed for your families. A lot pled to an almighty God that you were rescued. And thank God the prayers were answered. (Applause.) [NY, 11 Sept 2002](http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E24895%257E853160,00.html) > [@](#): > > We cannot know all that lies ahead. Yet we do know that God has placed us together in this moment, to grieve together, to stand together, to serve each other and our country. And the duty we have been given - defending America and our freedom - is also a privilege we share. > > We are prepared for this journey. And our prayer tonight is that God will see us through, and keep us worthy. [The White House, February 1, 2003](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030201-2.html) > [@](#): > > In the skies today we saw destruction and tragedy. Yet farther than we can see there is comfort and hope. In the words of the prophet Isaiah, “Lift your eyes and look to the heavens. Who created all these? He who brings out the starry hosts one by one and calls them each by name. Because of His great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing.” > > The same Creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today. The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home. > > May God bless the grieving families, and may God continue to bless America. But the one that really tips the scales for me is this one: [White House, September 20, 2001](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html) > [@](#): > > Tonight we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Whether we bring our enemies to justice, or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done. [big snip] Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them. Thus he equates the US’s actions with freedom and justice, and goes on to imply that God is on the side of justice and freedom - and hence the US’s actions - as dictated by GWB and his administration. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/11 "2003-04-25T16:05:02Z")
God , did you want Bush to be our president? If so, why are you punishing us? please tell us what we are doing wrong and we will stop. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/12 "2003-04-25T16:12:07Z")
I’m not quite sure why this bothers you so, (or why you had to characterize it, in the other thread, as a lie invented by the Left). I rarely read Left wing commentators (except to see how they have been quoted or misquoted in threads on this MB), and I came to that conclusion simply by the rhetoric that he and his spokespersons have employed. I don’t even know that I object to him having a faith-grounded belief that he is following the proper course. (I am more concerned about his actions than his motivations.) Nevertheless, from his persistent emphasis on his “faith based” outreach programs, through his grandstanding on the “under God” clause in the Pledge of Allegiance, to his various references to God in his speeches touching on terrorism, I have inferred that he believes he is doing God’s work from _his_ words and actions. (And, again, I am not claiming that his comments are inappropriate, given his beliefs. I only find it amusing that you believe that the message that _he_ has conveyed is a left-wing “lie.”) Some samples: > [@](#): > > It’s notable, yesterday when the President was in Arizona comforting the families who lost their homes in the fire, the thing he said that brought the most warmth and hope to those people gathered in that high school was “have faith in God Almighty.” That, more than anything, brought a reaction from people who were looking for help. And I think this decision will not sit well with the American people. Certainly, it does not sit well with the President of the United States. Ari Fleisscher quoting the president from Arizona regarding the Pledge flap. June 26, 2002 > [@](#): > > We cannot know all that lies ahead. Yet, we do know that God had placed us together in this moment, to grieve together, to stand together, to serve each other and our country. And the duty we have been given – defending America and our freedom – is also a privilege we share. September 11, 2002 > [@](#): > > Americans are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not America’s gift to the world, it is God’s gift to humanity. State of the Union, January 28, 2003 > [@](#): > > Each one of you knows that the power of faith can transform a life. People of faith and goodness and idealism also have the power to transform our neighborhoods and our nation. I’ve set a great goal for America. We must apply the great compassion of our people to the deepest problems of this country. > . . . > America views the Iraqi people as human beings who have suffered long enough under this tyrant. (Applause.) And the Iraqi people can be certain of this: the United States is committed to helping them build a better future. If conflict occurs, we’ll bring Iraq food and medicine and supplies and, most importantly, freedom. (Applause.) > > As I said in my State of the Union, liberty is not America’s gift to the world. Liberty is God’s gift to every human being in the world. (Applause.) America has great challenges; challenges at home and challenges abroad. We’re called to extend the promise of this country into the lives of every citizen who lives here. We’re called to defend our nation and to lead the world to peace, and we will meet both challenges with courage and with confidence. (Applause.) February 10, 2003 > [@](#): > > And the other thing that is an inherent part of our view of Iraq is how I started the discussion here. See, we believe everybody matters, everybody counts. It doesn’t matter your background, where you’re from, everybody has worth. As I said in my State of the Union address, liberty is not America’s gift to the world; liberty is God’s gift to human – to the human – mankind. And that’s what we believe. (Applause.) > > So in the days ahead, as we deal with this challenge facing our country, you need to know that the value of freedom and liberty will be at the forefront of a policy designed to make the world more peaceful, and a policy designed to protect the American people. February 26, 2003 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/13 "2003-04-25T16:19:12Z")
This apology that GWB is “on God’s side” rather than vice versa is about as weak and specious as it gets. That’s what all zealots think, just ask bin Laden. It’s obvious that Junior thinks he’s on a holy crusade. In a classic, dry-drunk, self-righteous fashion he has convinced himself that he was appointed by God to put all those evil Ay-rabs and liberals and smarty-pants actors in their place. He was appointed, all right, but not by God. It was a fixed Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/14 "2003-04-25T16:19:43Z")
Contrast Abraham Lincoln who, on being “comforted” that God was on the side of the Union, replied: > [@](#): > > I am not at all concerned about that. . . . But it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I and this nation should be on the Lord’s side. Or, with equal fervor: > [@](#): > > I’ve always wanted God on our side in this affair, but we absolutely must have Kentucky. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/15 "2003-04-25T16:24:28Z")
I have a question: what do you think Bush’s view of knowledge is? Does he believe that those who someone decides best intuitively know what is right and true should determine what is right knowledge (the fundamentalist principle), or does he believe that claims of truth and rightness are views that have to be survive criticism and checking by evidence and skeptics (liberal scientific method)? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/16 "2003-04-25T16:28:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*I have a question: what do you think Bush’s view of knowledge is? > Does he believe that those who someone decides best intuitively know what is right and true should determine what is right knowledge (the fundamentalist principle), or does he believe that claims of truth and rightness are views that have to be survive criticism and checking by evidence and skeptics (liberal scientific method)? \*\* Bush is a Methodist by denomination, but i would say that he probably leans pretty fundy. He has said on at least two occasions that Jews can’t go to heaven, so what does that tell you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/17 "2003-04-25T16:35:42Z")
Bush also thinks that evolution and creationsim are equal theories. he says the “jury is still out” on evolution and that schools should be able to teach creationism. So obviously critical thought is not a part of his personality. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/18 "2003-04-25T16:57:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*This apology that GWB is “on God’s side” rather than vice versa is about as weak and specious as it gets. \*\* I hope you noticed **tomndebb’s** simulpost, right after yours, with the Abraham Lincoln quote: > [@](#): > > I am not at all concerned about [God being on the side of the Union]. . . . But it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I and this nation should be on the Lord’s side. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/19 "2003-04-25T16:58:23Z")
**tomndebb** , thanks for mentioning Lincoln. For a true example of how to be a uniter, not a divider, see his second Inaugural Address about whose “side” God was on in slavery and the Civil War: > [@](#): > > … > Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God’s assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men’s faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. “Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh.” > > If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? > > Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said “the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.” > > With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation’s wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122/20 "2003-04-25T17:08:35Z")
**december** , you missed the point of **tomndebb** ’s Lincoln quote. Lincoln placed full responsibility on himself for acting according to God’s will, in acknowledgment of his human inadequacy for determining it. He was not deciding on a position and course of action first, and _then_ invoking God’s blessing upon it and damnation upon its opponents, as Bush too often seems to do. Lincoln, in the humility that made him great, understood that he could be partly right and partly wrong, _and that so could his opponents_ (read the clip from the Second Inaugural I posted above). He did not _claim_ God to be on his “side”, he simply _hoped_ he was. Bush, in contrast, does not show an iota of that same humility before God that a truly religious person, not a zealot, maintains. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-convinced-that-god-is-on-his-side/171122.md?page=2)