# Is George Bush responsible for 9/11? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 9, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136 "2003-07-09T01:23:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/41 "2003-07-09T19:58:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Optihut \* > **When Pearl Harbor happens, the Japanese embassador is stalled and can’t deliver the declaration of war.** This is a nitpick, but hearing Japan’s 14 part message described as a declaration of war always irks me badly. It was _no such thing_, complete text is here: [Link](http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/Dip/Fourteen.html) All it states is that Japan sees no point in continuing negotiations over the situation in China – a far cry from a declaration of war. The cause of the delay in decoding it was also Japan’s fault, so unless they were in active collusion with FDR use of this as evidence of a conspiracy is out. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/42 "2003-07-09T21:51:43Z")
I am in the process of reading a book called Alice In Wonderland, lies about 9-11 by David Icke. Never heard of him before, but i find myself agreeing with a LOT of whats in the book: a bunch of people control whats really going on in the World, its to make a New World Order (yes, i beleive this totally). Its a fascinating read. Who is David icke anyway? ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/43 "2003-07-09T22:13:19Z")
Before someone mentions LBJ and the grassy knoll, could we stick to one crackpot notion, say, the one mentioned in the OP? There are plenty of other threads about Pearl Harbor, and I’m sure someone could start one about David Icke and the shape-shifting reptiles who rule the world. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/44 "2003-07-09T22:15:30Z")
ooohhhh ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/45 "2003-07-09T22:44:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\*Optihut, your “Recap” contained not one shred of direct evidence, or even a reasonable logical argument, that FDR knew about the impending attack on Pearl Harbor, much less tried to cause it. > It’s absurd and is quite easily refuted, and in fact HAS been refuted on this board. If you want to start a new GD thread on it go right ahead; if you’re willing to genuinely consider the evidence, I’ll gladly participate. > xtisme, that’s a nonexistent link, “[http://optihut](http://optihut)”??? \*\* 1. Fair enough. Perhaps I was wrong and he did not know specifically about Pearl Harbor. Nevertheless gearing up production, passing and oil embargo and relocating the fleet are indicators that an attack - not necessarily on pearl - was expected (as I said, shutting off the oil supply is a reason for war during peace times and this is magnified during war) and may have been very welcome. In my book those actions are clear instigations, ymmv. 2. I have no desire to start a new thread over this as it apparently has been debated. Furthermore my knowledge of those events and my desire to discuss at length is very limited and I’d be no real challenge for anyone looking for a pages spanning debate. Furthermore I think the actions taken by the past Japanese and US American government are more or less known and everybody can draw their own conclusions from those actions. 3. [http://optihut](http://optihut) sounds very flattering 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/46 "2003-07-09T23:12:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*…Lord, lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word… > \*\* Oh, my God! They’ve killed **Shodan**! You bastards! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/47 "2003-07-10T06:16:24Z")
I refuse to sing the “Uncle F\*\*\*a” song… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![laughing\_cow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@laughing\_cow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laughing_cow)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/48 "2003-07-10T10:52:45Z")
vanilla, David Icke is “MAD, BAD, OR JUST PREPARED TO GO WHERE OTHERS FEAR TO TREAD” ([http://www.davidicke.com/icke/](http://www.davidicke.com/icke/)). He is a guy who believes alien reptiles took over earth some time ago. We’re just not aware of it yet 8:]. As for ‘Alice In Wonderland, lies about 9-11’, try commic books instead or if you feel up to, try the original ‘Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass’, much much closer to reality. For those who believe in this shit: Pop your head out of your arse once in a while and smell the real world. There are so many legitimate concerns about GW’s presidency to address. This sort of crap only gives reason to GW’s supporters to call the rest of us stupid. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/49 "2003-07-10T11:23:04Z")
Er. Right. What Laughing Cow said. David Icke is of the firm belief that, among others, the British Royal Family and most of the Presidents of the US are shapechanging lizardlike Reptoids. This tends to make it rather hard for me to believe _anything_ he writes without firm independent confirmation. He seems rather persuasive, though. ---
**Author:** ![utkik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e8c25b/32.png) [@utkik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/utkik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/50 "2003-07-10T12:28:15Z")
[http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html](http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html) okay, so there’s not a lot of citing here, and some of the things are plainly ridiculous, BUT other things, partic. the Pentagon do get you thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/51 "2003-07-10T13:47:02Z")
Well, I must say those pictures of the Pentagon _do_ look weird. If it was able to only hit the ground floor (which is rather weird in itself for such a big plane), that means it should have skid on the ground for some lenght. Which means there should at least be _some_ debris. Any debunking sites out there?? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/52 "2003-07-10T15:10:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Latro \* > \*\*Well, I must say those pictures of the Pentagon _do_ look weird. > If it was able to only hit the ground floor (which is rather weird in itself for such a big plane), that means it should have skid on the ground for some lenght. Which means there should at least be _some_ debris. > > Any debunking sites out there?? \*\* [www.snopes2.com](http://www.snopes2.com) is pretty good at addressing this type of vile bullshit. They [address the specific claim](http://snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm) that the damage to the Pentagon wasn’t caused by a plane, and prove it wrong by including photos of actual plane debris on the site. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/53 "2003-07-10T15:54:24Z")
Those cnn pictures look conclusive enough. That puts that one to rest then. Thanks, Bryan ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136/54 "2003-07-12T16:50:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by laughing\_cow \* > \*\*vanilla, > > ([http://www.davidicke.com/icke/](http://www.davidicke.com/icke/)). > As for ‘Alice In Wonderland, lies about 9-11’, try commic books instead or if you feel up to, try the original ‘Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass’, much much closer to reality. > > \*\* AH, so you claim the book is non reality without ever havingread it eh? You are Ignorant then. Here are some questions from the book:Why did Norad do nothing even while it was known the plane was hi jacked and had to fly 45 minutes to get to D.C.? Rumsfeld wasn’t told of the WTC hits for an hour? Why no surveillance photos even though the Pentagon has many cameras? Sonya Ross, AP reporter knew of the crash before Bush spoke at the school. Bush"I was sitting outsdie the classroom, waiting to go in, saw first airplane hit WTC. What a terrible pilot" [www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/12/20011204-17.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/12/20011204-17.html) How could he have seen the first plane hit, no one did. Sorry. The “government” not only allowed this to happen, it wanted it to. Read the book, then dismiss these claims. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-bush-responsible-for-9-11/187136.md?page=2)