# Is George W. Bush actually stupid? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439 "2003-09-18T19:02:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/21 "2003-09-18T20:21:53Z")
It’s quite obvious that Bush is stupid, the only question is, how stupid is he? I would say he’s in the 90 IQ range, based on the way he talks, his mangled speeches, the fact that his handlers won’t allow him to debate or do much ex tempore discussions of any kind. He’d probably do OK in a middle management job that wasn’t too demanding, but might be much happier working in agricultural labor or on an assembly line than being President. Sadly for all of us, it hasn’t worked out that way for Dubya. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/22 "2003-09-18T20:26:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > Of course not. Because anything positive that he ever accomplished in life was obviously due to family connections. Or strong advisors. Or strong advisors that were put in place by his family connections. And so on. Which only leaves negative aspects. Which prove that he is a moron. What, are you stupid or somethine? Everyone knows that all of his successes are due to **luck**.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/23 "2003-09-18T20:42:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tommyw \* > \*\*I’d be surprised if Harvard or the other institution mentioned are incorruptible. \*\* Q: What do you call someone who graduates at the bottom of his class at Harvard Medical School? A: “Doctor” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/24 "2003-09-18T20:47:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tommyw \* > **humour down the pub** From this may I assume you are not an American? I’m funny like that but, while I have no respect for the guy and consider him on the intellectual level of a shaved ape, it irks me when foreigners make fun of our president. I mean, I don’t point out that Tony Blair looks like Stan Laurel’s love child. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/25 "2003-09-18T20:48:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tejota \* > \*\* but he isn’t clinically stupid. > \*\* If stupidity were only a diagnosis. ---
**Author:** ![tommyw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@tommyw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tommyw)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/26 "2003-09-18T20:50:45Z")
hey, Blair I wouldn’t even humour, and I don’t doubt his intellectual abilities. ---
**Author:** ![tommyw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@tommyw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tommyw)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/27 "2003-09-18T20:53:04Z")
and I certainly wouldn’t pat him on the head. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/28 "2003-09-18T20:58:21Z")
I have no idea about Bush’s intelligence or IQ, BUT… Anyone who is followed around 24/7 by the White House Press Corps and basically lives with a camera and/or microphone recording his or her every single movement can easily, with a little editing, be made to appear to be the most stupid person on the face of the planet. Think of the smartest person you know, give me full camera coverage of that person for any single day and I guarantee you I can put together five minutes of tape that will convince you they are retarded. No question. We receive our info about Bush through the prism of the media. They decide what we see, for the most part. Footage of Bush (or any president, for that matter) listening quietly, taking notes, asking questions or speculating out loud will NEVER make the network news shows or be broadcast on Letterman or Leno. But footage of Bush dropping something, stuttering or forgetting a word will be fodder for a week. Bush could be the dumbest person in America, I have no idea. But I certainly do not trust the media to make the decision for me. Also, I’d like to point out that Bush is probably not the best president we’ve ever had when it comes to public speaking. But I’d also add that public speaking skills are not always an indicator of intelligence. For example, Clinton was an excellent public speaker. Nobody could touch him. Was he ‘intelligent?’ Maybe, maybe not. Anyone who, while facing a sexual harrassment lawsuit, decides that it’s a good time to start ‘tagging’ the interns at the office could easily be said to have made some ‘stupid’ decisions in his life. I, for one, will give Bush the benefit of the doubt for the time being… ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/29 "2003-09-18T21:05:26Z")
Stupid == Disagrees with my prejudices. Intelligent == Agrees with my prejudices. That’s all I’ve seen in this thread. From what I can tell, he has a very keen and well-developed mind. It is also a very narrowly-focused and ideologically blinkered mind. In some ways, he is a quintessential totalitarian. If the world does not match his dogma, he will take that as an imperative to make the world match his dogma. An example is that one of his big dogmas is that it is not possible to be anything but a complete lackey of the USA or be an enemy. Thus, his diplomacy, military, and other foreign policies are designed to push all other countries into one of those two camps. Were he as stupid as people who “think” with their bigotry and smarminess claim, he’d never have made it this far. His is not the only family with connections and ambitious sons. Of course, when one cannot actually argue sensibly against a policy, the lowbrow recourse is to start calling the policy-maker a “sinner”. On the right wing, they yell “immoral”. On the left-wing, they yell “stupid”. In both cases, they’re simply descending below the lowest level of Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore combined in a vat of Wesson oil. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/30 "2003-09-18T22:03:45Z")
He wouldn’t last four days on the SDMB. Trinopus ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/31 "2003-09-18T22:05:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*Very true, he’s probably one of the dumbest human beings on this planet. I heard he was in a home for retarded people for a while, but got out due to his family’s connections. Also, he has a tendency to combine meandering thoughts into one paragraph, which is generally a sign of low intelligence. > > And I agree with you about the way he walks. There is a special walk that dumb people have, and he has it. Psychologists are starting to phase out IQ tests in favor of just analyzing people’s way of walking - a much better way to assess intelligence. > > I’m sure he is bewildered by his being president. I heard that he tries to run away sometimes, but Cheney & Rumsfeld give him a lot of candy until he stays. > > In short, this is a well written and intelligent OP - much smarter than anything that Bush himself could have ever put out. \*\* This is truly a funny post. Did you get Bush to write it for you? ---
**Author:** ![NightRabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@NightRabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/32 "2003-09-18T22:28:17Z")
I think what throws people off is that he gives his speeches awkwardly, as if he’s just reciting them from memory with no evident comprehension. This is really the only direct contact he has with the american people so, whether oratory skills are demonstrative of intelligence or not, a lack of them is a real detriment in terms of how regular people are going to view him. And I also think it’s easy to use this as further “proof” that he’s ignorant on issues… that his speeches would show more feeling if he was more comfortable with what he talks about. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/33 "2003-09-18T22:48:47Z")
Hurm. Yeah, he does sometimes seem like he has trouble enunciating subtle concepts. Then again, give him something simple & dramatic, like his speech telling Saddam to get out of Iraq or be taken out, & he’s impressive. He may just not be stellar enough to deserve this position. But then, I tried telling Republicans that in 1999, when they were conspiring to give him the nomination for no good reason. Maybe, “George Bush’s idiot son,” was too strong a way to phrase it. But boy, they jumped on his bandwagon _tout-suite_. I think the really sad thing is that once they heard anyone blast him, they figured he was what the liberals (who after all, are evil & get there orders from Satan himself, right?) feared, therefore he must be the perfect choice. Partisans are stupid, & partisans helped put this guy in power. In 2008, when the Democrats’ turn comes up, what the Right has to do is fully demonize the Demo they want to win during the primaries, while saying repeatedly, “but he seems to resonate with Middle America,” to make him sympathetic to the swing voters in the main event, & he’ll win the election. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/34 "2003-09-18T23:06:01Z")
I hate Bush as much as the next bloody-hearted leftie, but I very much doubt the man is actually of below average intelligence. I wouldn’t be surprised if he were even a bit above average, although I’m sure the man’s no genius either. But no matter how stupid or smart he may be, I don’t think he’s cut out to be President. Just one of his many shortcomings is that he’s a lousy public speaker. That’s probably why he comes across as being a bit of an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/35 "2003-09-19T00:00:46Z")
I dunno, [I think there’s a little more to Bush than meets the eye](http://www.theonion.com/onion3713/bush_regales_guests.html) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/36 "2003-09-19T00:04:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*It’s quite obvious that Bush is stupid, the only question is, how stupid is he? I would say he’s in the 90 IQ range, based on the way he talks, his mangled speeches, the fact that his handlers won’t allow him to debate or do much ex tempore discussions of any kind. He’d probably do OK in a middle management job that wasn’t too demanding, but might be much happier working in agricultural labor or on an assembly line than being President. Sadly for all of us, it hasn’t worked out that way for Dubya. \*\* 90 IQ range… that’s pretty damn stupid. He’s a few points away from being fed through a tube because he’s too dumb to swallow, and shitting his pants. Not everyone on the Straight Dope Message Boards have extremely large IQ’s. Perhaps you could be a little more sensitive when explaining your definition of “stupid”. ---
**Author:** ![GoHeels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@GoHeels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoHeels)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/37 "2003-09-19T00:05:56Z")
**Tejota:** > [@](#): > > In part this is because he is working in a job that requires a smart person, and he’s merely average. I wanted to take issue with this statement by Tejota. I think, braincell for braincell, the smartest (in the “intellectual” sense) president during the last half of the 20th century was Jimmy Carter (although many folks would put Nixon and Clinton right up there with Carter). And I would also argue Carter was by far the most morally sound president. He was also the worst president in the last half of the 20th century by most measures (although I do give him some credit for brokering Israeli-Egyptian peace accord and the SALT II agreement. Also, I don’t deny that it was his rotten luck to be the President immediately after the Vietnam War, and all of the events below aren’t all his fault): - Awful economy (stagflation) - Energy crisis (gas lines, feckless response to OPEC shenanigans) - National feeling of “malaise” - Tepid response to international threats (Iran hostage crisis, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Pol Pot, etc.) - American prestige at its low point Furthermore, I would argue those same traits (intelligence, morality) did him in as a LEADER more than anything else. Carter had a tendency to exercise his keen mind to the extent that it paralyzed his ability to make hard decisions (example - the failed rescue attempt of the hostages; how bad did America look at that point). He also agonized over the morality of his decisions which led to way too much navel-gazing - and as a president, that’s a prescription for disaster. Personally, I don’t mind my president being a little on the ruthless side. I have my issues with Bush (veto one - JUST ONE - spending bill, for chrissakes!!), and I’m still undecided on 2004 (note to Dems - if you want to win, Clark is your best bet). But I do give Bush credit for having the guts to make a momentous strategic decision that he thought (and I agree) is the best hope for something approaching decency to emerge out of the Middle East.\* \*I don’t want to hijack this thread to talk about the war, so if you feel you must, flame away at the last sentence of this post, but I won’t respond. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/38 "2003-09-19T00:59:49Z")
> [@](#): > > He wouldn’t last four days on the SDMB. Hey, I’ve been here three years, and I’m at least as stupid as the President. ---
**Author:** ![Computer\_Guru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Computer\_Guru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Computer_Guru)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/39 "2003-09-19T01:03:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tommyw \* > \*\*This isn’t in any way politically motivated (believe it or not), although, ofcourse, I do have opinions about the politics of the man aswell. But is he really a stupid person or does he just seem that way? I mean, just watching his performance objectively, merely as a human being: the things he says, the stumbling way he speaks, even the look in his eyes and the way he walks. It has always said to me: here is a man of inferior intelligence. I mean the sort of guy you would humour down the pub, maybe pat on the head now and then, but not pay much attention to. Is there anyone who sees him differently? Can they give me a link to a debate transcript or something in which he’s impressive? Because I did meet this one religious woman recently who said she liked the man, and I said “why?”, and she said “because I really believe he prays for our country every night”. But any moron can pray, and I was looking for something more. > I find it fascinating, if he is actually stupid (which I secretly doubt because he’s the most powerful man in the world, and that surely means something more than impressions garnered from TV snapshots), that he could have found himself in the position he’s in: i.e. the President. It must be terribly bewildering for the poor guy. > I recently read a biography of Reagan and it said he was actually extremely clever, which was a nice surprise. \*\* I don’t think it’s correct to judge the intelligence of someone by the way they talk or walk. A lot of smart people have trouble communicating. You can’t judge a book by it’s cover. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenchslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/94ad74/32.png) [@Wrenchslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenchslinger)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439/40 "2003-09-19T01:14:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trinopus \* > \*\*He wouldn’t last four days on the SDMB. > > Trinopus \*\* Can you say with absolute certainty that he is not now, nor has ever been a member of this board? Don’t jump to conclusions… it’s usually followed by a pretty big fall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-george-w-bush-actually-stupid/202439.md?page=3)