# Is giving children controversial or unusual names tantamount to child abuse? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 16, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540 "2009-01-16T03:16:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/1 "2009-01-16T03:16:25Z")
If a child is saddled with an [extremely unusual or controversial name](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479904,00.html) that potentially subjects the child to ridicule is that tantamount to child abuse and near infantile self indulgence on the part of the parents? Some otherwise progressive western nations have hard restrictions on what parents can name their children to prevent this sort of thing from happening. Should the US adopt these restrictions as well? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/2 "2009-01-16T03:20:40Z")
Are you suggesting it’s solely because of their names that they were taken away from their parents? Because DYFS is saying they’re not releasing the details of the case. (I’m betting there’s a hell of a lot more going on) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/3 "2009-01-16T03:33:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Are you suggesting it’s solely because of their names that they were taken away from their parents? Because DYFS is saying they’re not releasing the details of the case. (I’m betting there’s a hell of a lot more going on) No I’m talking about this claim by the psychologist referenced in the story. > [@](#): > > Forensic psychologist N.G. Berrill said naming a boy Hitler could be considered child abuse. > > “Part of it is the infantile nature of the parents’ behavior,” Berrill said. “You can name your dog something weird, but they think they’re making some kind of bold statement with the children, not appreciating that the children will have separate lives and will be looked at in a negative light until they’re able to change their name. It is abuse.” ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/4 "2009-01-16T03:33:24Z")
In that specific case I’m sure there are other factors beyond the names the idiotic parents gave the children that caused their removal from the family. In general, is it child abuse? I would say no, but the parents aren’t doing anyone any favours with the out there names. I think the whole situation isn’t helped by this Celebrity fad for weird names, which then the more …hmmm… unelightened (?)… follow slavishly with their own silly names. There was are recent case, IIRC from New Zealand where the parents had called their child “_Toulala does the Hula from Hawaii_” :smack: idiots. As a personal anecdote I have recently heard (on seperate occasions) children having been given the names _Maverick_ (fixated on the 80’s much), and (I kid you not) _Awesome_ :eek: In both cases I felt like walking up to the parents, slapping them in the face and screaming “what were you thinking”? In adult life how does someone named _Awesome_ function, walking into a job interview “Hi I’m Awesome” 😃 “Why yes you certainly must be” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/5 "2009-01-16T15:01:43Z")
I’m on the fence about this. I’m all for free speech, and I’d hate to live somewhere where people can’t name their kids what they want; at the same time, for a parent to knowingly name their kid something like Hitler when they’re doubtless aware of the connotations of the name and the potential for bullying, ridicule and ostracism that would imply, it seems assholish at best. At worst, they’re choosing their own beliefs over their children’s needs, those needs being to have the best chance at life. I can’t imagine a parent wanting their kids to associate with someone named Hitler and I also can’t imagine an employer willing to hire someone with that name. Naming a kid _Awesome_ or _Thorne_ or something outrageous but without the negative association, on the other hand, seems juvenile on the parents’ behalf but relatively harmless in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/6 "2009-01-16T15:23:32Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > As a personal anecdote I have recently heard (on seperate occasions) children having been given the names _Maverick_ (fixated on the 80’s much) My name is Maverick but I predate the 1980’s by several years. I love it and get compliments on it all the time. It has helped me get everything from jobs to dates. The Top Gun jokes do get old after a while though. I have never met another Maverick in person. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/7 "2009-01-16T15:31:17Z")
I think it can be abusive depending on the name. Talula Does The Hula From Hawaii is a dumb name, to be sure, but dumb is about as far as it goes. Naming your child something that is designed to inspire fear, loathing, or rage in other people might actually be abusive. Naming your child something like Hitler is kind of abusive. You might as well name your child Nigger or Cunt or some other horrible thing for all the good a name like Hitler will do them. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/8 "2009-01-16T15:41:36Z")
But is a poorly-chosen name a reason to take a child away from his or her parents? Some countries can force name changes, but is the only thing we can do in America is to remove the child? It does appear it’s more than that in this case, though. (It seems to me almost anything today can make child protective services consider removing a child. Someone I know is having problems with them because his house was burglarized while his family was on vacation, and the mess the thieves left was too messy for an infant.) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/9 "2009-01-16T15:41:55Z")
Is it abusive to hang a sign on your kid that invites other kids to abuse him? I would say yes. And that’s what the parents are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/10 "2009-01-16T16:04:53Z")
I’m solidly not in favor of giving the kid a name that’ll cause them problems in later life. My wife is a probation officer. One of her probationers (they don’t call 'em “clients”) has a little girl named “L-a”. I swear to God, she pronounces the dash. “Luh-DASH-uh.” How do you fill that in on a Scantron? ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/11 "2009-01-16T16:10:31Z")
I would say “it depends”. I’ve had plenty of classmates with really unusual names and they’ve all kept them into adulthood. And I have two cousins with goofy hippy names, they are currently in their 30s and 40s respectively. They’ve never wanted to change them. My one cousin (with the more confusing name) has explained that her name has been one of the best barometers throughout her life when meeting people. The people really worth knowing were the ones who learned her name quickly, or who made a genuine effort to get it right. On the other hand, people who say “Pleased to meet you Commonname” (and haven’t misheard) have shown they don’t actually give a shit what her name is. It’s dismissive. Cousin: “Close, my name is not Commonname. My name is Unusualname.” New acquaintance: “Uh-huh. So Commonname, do you work downtown?” I have seen this in action and I kind of envy the social filter it gives her. I think a major influence though is the way parents teach their children and interact with them teaching them that diversity and uniqueness are positive attributes in individuals. If you made fun of my cousin’s name as a kid, she’d have laughed along with you rather than cry. However, IMHO, names that are considered socially offensive to the majority and that are bestowed on kids deliberately to get a rise out of everyone is unfair to the child. It’s one thing to move from Germany and have the last name Kuntz which sounds offensive in the new community, and quite another to name you kid Cunt Smith, with the intent of provoking people. Both kids would be teased like crazy at school, but it would suck more for the kid who knew her parents were _trying_ to piss people off. So yeah, using your kid as a weapon against society is pretty close to abusive. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/12 "2009-01-16T16:13:23Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Is it abusive to hang a sign on your kid that invites other kids to abuse him? > > I would say yes. And that’s what the parents are doing. The thing is, this is not useful. Any name will be abused and destroyed by kids. Should we stop giving our kids traditional ethnic names because of this? My name was butchered and I was constantly made fun of - but now I love my name, and wouldn’t change it. Unless you name your kid Michael or John or Bill, they will get made fun of. Just the way it works here. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/13 "2009-01-16T16:17:33Z")
If you’ve got parents like this, your screwy name is probably the least of your problems. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/14 "2009-01-16T16:19:48Z")
I realize that Hitler, Tallulah Does the Hula from Hawaii and Equal Rights Amendment are all pretty extreme examples of things not to do when making life choices, but coming down on people for doing it is kind of a slippery slope. Somewhere else on that slope is coming down on people for dressing their kids funny, or making them take accordion lessons, or teaching them how to use guns, or feeding them too many beans, or not teaching them proper table manners. How far down the rabbit hole are people willing to go in telling people how to raise their kids? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/15 "2009-01-16T16:20:45Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Is giving children controversial or unusual names tantamount to child abuse? No. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/16 "2009-01-16T17:04:47Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I realize that Hitler, Tallulah Does the Hula from Hawaii and Equal Rights Amendment are all pretty extreme examples of things not to do when making life choices, but coming down on people for doing it is kind of a slippery slope. > > Somewhere else on that slope is coming down on people for dressing their kids funny, or making them take accordion lessons, or teaching them how to use guns, or feeding them too many beans, or not teaching them proper table manners. > > How far down the rabbit hole are people willing to go in telling people how to raise their kids? This. Parents have the right to do a lot worse things to a child than giving them a silly name. Trying to police names while letting parents harm them with all kinds of bad choices would be flat out silly, and trying to police all parental choices is somewhere between Orwellian and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/17 "2009-01-16T17:25:02Z")
Giving a child a silly, dumb or unusual name is generally a sign that the parent is silly, dumb or unusual. Giving a child an offensive, hateful name is probably a sign that the parent is offensive and hateful. While I would not be at all surprised that offensive and hateful parents are highly correlated with abusive parents, I don’t think a 1:1 correlation is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, children should not be removed from the home for having offensive, hateful names, but I would not look askance on a child protective services officer or social worker deciding to \*investigate \*based on such a name. Take away the kids, no. Look for signs of abuse, sure. Only if signs of abuse are found should further steps be taken. ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/18 "2009-01-16T18:06:17Z")
Back in the day I was vaguely familiar with two brothers with the last name Dickey. One was named Harry. He was quite sensitive about people making fun of him, and would fly into a rage if you so much as looked at him crosswise. I always felt bad for him, and always felt that his parents (who I never met) should be shot. You want to give out a goofy name? Buy a pet, they don’t care what you call them. But if you deliberately name your kid Harry Dickey, that just abuse in my opinion. Especially since the kid can’t change his name until adulthood, by which time he’s mostly scarred for life. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/19 "2009-01-16T18:25:43Z")
Just to give an example of a set of laws/procedures in which legal names are restricted, [here](http://www.formulaire.gouv.qc.ca/cgi/affiche_doc.cgi?dossier=10817&sujet=40)is a page describing the policy in Québec. > [@](#): > > If it is evident that an unusual given name or surname chosen by parents will discredit or bring ridicule on their child, the Directeur de l’état civil can ask the parents to choose a different name or surname. > > … > > UNUSUAL NAMES AND SURNAMES > > When parents reject suggestions made by the Directeur de l’état civil (DEC), the DEC nevertheless fills the Birth certificate and notify the Attorney General of Québec. The latter may bring the case to court within 90 days of registration of the act, asking to replace the name or surname chosen by the parents by the surname of one of them or by an usual name, as appropriate. > > Until the deadline to bring a court action or, if an appeal is exercised, until the judgement is an adjudicated thing, the DEC referred to the notice given to the Attorney General on the certificates, copies of certificates and act on the Birth certificate. > > The DEC strongly recommends for parents not to wait to be at the hospital to get acquainted with the procedures for awarding the name, but rather to do this before the birth of the child. To this end, various documents are available: flyers and brochures. I don’t think children should be removed from otherwise reasonable (defined however you want it to be!) parents for having a silly/offensive name, BUT I kind of agree with laws not allowing these names to be the child’s LEGAL name. You can all the kid whatever you want, but give them a legal, documented name that isn’t offensive to fall back on. I have 2 friends that use names that are completely different from what’s on their birth certificates; their “real” names only matter for paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-giving-children-controversial-or-unusual-names-tantamount-to-child-abuse/481540/20 "2009-01-16T18:33:44Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > kid Cunt neo-Punk with Dadaist tendencies band Name! Though Cuntsmith would have worked too… 😃