# Is Glen Beck/Fox News responsible for this guy's attempted mass murder? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789 "2010-10-11T14:52:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/41 "2010-10-12T13:11:58Z")
Beck is responsible for this in the same way that Al Gore is responsible for the Unabomber. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/42 "2010-10-12T13:50:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > If you had a reasonable expectation that I’d actually do so, then morally at least you’d share in the blame. As it is, no you wouldn’t because you have no reason to think I’d actually do something you told me to do. > > I’m not sure about this comparison either. Beck isn’t ordering anyone to kill. I don’t think he wants anyone dead and he may be too dumb to realize that some people take his stuff seriously. On the other hand he does tell people that society is about to collapse and they and the country are in mortal danger. If you tell someone that and they fall for it, you don’t need to tell them to kill anyone because they’ll figure it out on their own. So that’s not the same as walking up to someone on the street and telling them to kill someone else at random. I would say that pretty much describes any number of alarmists out there on both sides of the aisle. Ariana Huffington immediately comes to mind, with her new book: [Third World American.](http://www.amazon.com/Third-World-America-Politicians-Abandoning/dp/0307719820/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1286890993&sr=1-1) > [@](#): > > _Starred Review_ Could the U.S. be on the brink of becoming a Third World nation? Syndicated columnist Huffington argues that overspending on war at the expense of domestic issues and the alarming decline of the middle class are troubling signals that the U.S. is losing its economic, political, and social stability—a stability that has always been maintained by the middle class. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/43 "2010-10-12T14:51:38Z")
Ariana Huffington’s audience isn’t government-hating “patriots” who are currently unabashedly stockpiling weapons. She doesn’t talk about “coups,” and “revolutions,” and “the stealing of America” by “Marxists,” and "internal enemies, and “burning in the streets” if “something doesn’t happen.” Ariana Huffington’s audience doesn’t talk about coming up with second amendment solutions to their perceived grievances. Ariana Huffington’s audience doesn’t run around in Revolutionary War attire with the implied threat of doing it all again if necessary. No one in Ariana Huffington’s audience, as far as I know, has ever strapped on some body armour, packed their mom’s pickup truck with ammo and guns, and then headed off to shoot some conservatives-- and when caught said that Ariana Huffington “would never advocate violence…but [s]he’ll give you every ounce of evidence that you could possibly need.” A liberal author writing about the decline of the middle class as a result of unnecessary military spending is hardly a call to arms. The shit that Beck does on a twice-daily basis \*is \*…but with enough plausible deniabilty that when one of his listeners/viewers finally does get so fucking freaked out by that Kenyan, socialist, progressive, Nazi, Muslim enemy who’s destroying our Constitution that they start putting bullets into their fellow Americans, Beck can sit back and say “What? Who? Me? I’m just an _entertainer_.” He’s not telling his listeners to shoot anyone, but he is filling them with so much fear and anger that you’re bound to get some right-wing American patriots who feel they have no choice but to defend their nation with their God-given guns. And that’s when you’ll hear “What? Who? Me? I’m an _entertainer_.” Bullshit. He’s an instigator. He’s the Woody Woodpecker of unhinged right-wingers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/44 "2010-10-12T15:08:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I would say that pretty much describes any number of alarmists out there on both sides of the aisle. Ariana Huffington immediately comes to mind, with her new book: [Third World American.](http://www.amazon.com/Third-World-America-Politicians-Abandoning/dp/0307719820/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1286890993&sr=1-1) > > > [@](#): > > > > _Starred Review_ Could the U.S. be on the brink of becoming a Third World nation? Syndicated columnist Huffington argues that overspending on war at the expense of domestic issues and the alarming decline of the middle class are troubling signals that the U.S. is losing its economic, political, and social stability—a stability that has always been maintained by the middle class. There are plenty of alarmists on both sides, but you could probably find better comparisons on the fringe of the opposition to Bush. I’m not sure Huffington qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/45 "2010-10-12T15:11:31Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > No one in Ariana Huffington’s audience, as far as I know, has ever strapped on some body armour, packed their mom’s pickup truck with ammo and guns, and then headed off to shoot some conservatives-- (snip)– As far as you know… But what if it did happen? Would Huffington be held accountable, by you, for the actions of some liberal loony toon who took her words as an unspoken order to kill? I say no. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/46 "2010-10-12T15:16:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@John\_Mace](#): > > > > I would say that pretty much describes any number of alarmists out there on both sides of the aisle. Ariana Huffington immediately comes to mind, with her new book: [Third World American.](http://www.amazon.com/Third-World-America-Politicians-Abandoning/dp/0307719820/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1286890993&sr=1-1) > > There are plenty of alarmists on both sides, but you could probably find better comparisons on the fringe of the opposition to Bush. I’m not sure Huffington qualifies. I’m not sure why you are focusing on the “fringe”. I picked AH because she’s pretty comparable to Beck in terms of media presence and audience. I don’t think either one constitutes the “fringe”. > [@Happy Lendervedder](#): > > ``` > Ariana Huffington's audience isn't government-hating "patriots" who are currently unabashedly stockpiling weapons. She doesn't talk about "coups," and "revolutions," and "the stealing of America" by "Marxists," and "internal enemies, and "burning in the streets" if "something doesn't happen." > > ``` She’s preaching the kind of stuff that could easily be picked up by the anti-globalization crowd. A group whose more radical members regularly riot in the streets. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/47 "2010-10-12T15:19:32Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > > > No one in Ariana Huffington’s audience, as far as I know, has ever strapped on some body armour, packed their mom’s pickup truck with ammo and guns, and then headed off to shoot some conservatives-- (snip)– > > As far as you know… But what if it did happen? Would Huffington be held accountable, by you, for the actions of some liberal loony toon who took her words as an unspoken order to kill? I say no. You would have to look at the words she said. If she’s repeatedly talking about fire in the streets, revolution, coup, second amendment solutions, rising up…then yes. If she sings “Helter Skelter” and someone claims to hear something about race riots, then no. It really is context and common sense. Beck is basically seeing how close he can get to yelling “Fire!” in a crowded movie theater without actually saying the word “Fire.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/48 "2010-10-12T15:30:56Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > > [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > > > As far as you know… But what if it did happen? Would Huffington be held accountable, by you, for the actions of some liberal loony toon who took her words as an unspoken order to kill? I say no. > > You would have to look at the words she said. If she’s repeatedly talking about fire in the streets, revolution, coup, second amendment solutions, rising up…then yes. Does Beck talk about “fire in the streets, revolution, coup, second amendment solutions, rising up”? I think you’re exagerating and taking things that other people say and attributing that to Beck. But I don’t watch Beck, so I could be wrong. Can you quote those things having been said by Beck? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/49 "2010-10-12T15:32:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > If you had a reasonable expectation that I’d actually do so, then morally at least you’d share in the blame. As it is, no you wouldn’t because you have no reason to think I’d actually do something you told me to do. > > I’m not sure about this comparison either. Beck isn’t ordering anyone to kill. I don’t think he wants anyone dead and he may be too dumb to realize that some people take his stuff seriously. I on the other hand am quite certain that he and his fellow right wing propagandists DO want people killed, with Obama at the top of the list. And this sort of thing is their strategy for killing people without dirtying their own hands and going to prison for it. They’ve been doing it for years. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/50 "2010-10-12T15:40:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s not a good comparison. Ozzy got blamed for some suicides based on the lyrics for a song that was anti-alcohol. Other metal bands were falsely accused of secretly hiding evil messages in their songs through backmasking, a technique that could allegedly deliver messages directly to the subconsious of impressionable kids who did not even know they were hearing something sinister. It was a total fiction invented by paranoids based on people convincing themselves they heard something when they played music backward. Glenn Beck _does_ tell his audience that the country is in danger from socialists plots and the economy is going to collapse into chaos. That’s not something people are interpreting, it’s his message. I have to disagree, I do think it’s an apt comparison, though his examples are perhaps not the best. Let us not forget how violent videogames and music were blames for specific attrocities like Columbine. Stuff like Ozzy and Metallica, or the famous “backwards message” in Stairway to Heaven are generally benign; hell, the guy who shot Lennon was supposedly inspired by **The Catcher in the Rye**. But there certainly is rap, metal, rock, electronic, and plenty of other music in plenty of other genres, not to mention plenty of literature, film, and other types of entertainment that glorify violence, wanton destruction, hatred, and advocate the overthrow of government and other constructs. > [@](#): > > I think we pretty much agree about this: some people are volatile or sick, meaning that if they don’t get help they’re likely to do something bizarre or crazy. What happens is influenced by what they are exposed to. So perhaps this guy was very likely to do _something_ crazy regardless, Glenn Beck’s views resonated with him, and he tried to start a revolution because he was watching a lot of Glenn Beck and other shows of that type. This, I mostly agree with. But this begs the question, that is impossible to answer, of whether or not this guy might have done something similar if Glenn Beck didn’t do what he does. Would this guy have resonated with some other message and done a similar act? Hell, he might have resonated with something that any sane person would see as benign, but because his brain doesn’t work right, he gets something completely different out of it. Crazy people do crazy things for crazy reasons. > [@](#): > > Is that Glenn Beck’s fault? He’s never told anybody to kill anybody else. What I would say is that he’s an entertainer, and his version of entertainment is saying things that terrify a lot of people and playing to those emotions. He’s nowhere near putting a gun in anybody’s hands, but we’d all be better off if people did not handle these kinds of subjects in the inflammatory and crazy way he does. He’s toying with people, basically, and while most of them probably know the score, some of them don’t realize he’s just a guy saying crazy stuff because it gets him paid a lot of money. That’s the problem. It’s probably part of the human condition for some people to be that manipulative and thoughtless, and for others to be that gullible. I’m going to have to disagree here. I would say Glenn Beck is at least a bit irresponsible with how he handles the issues and his influence, but you really can’t rest any of the blame of what a crazy person does. Yes, I wish someone like Glenn Beck would be a bit more responsible, but it’s part of the trade-off that comes with our liberties. The vast majority of people can be “entertained” by Glenn Beck and not attempt mass murder, but there’s no way to prevent the random crazy without also infringing on the freedoms that we hold so dear. So, I can’t assign any blame to him for any specific act done by one of his viewers. That said, I still think he’s irresponsible in general, not so much that he might incite similar acts of violence, but because he surely is aware that even generally adjusted people live in greater fear because of what he does. In fact, I hold everyone to the same standard. We are all ultimately responsible for our own actions, so it’s wrong to blame someone else, but condoning or enabling poor choices by others still makes you a douchebag, even if you don’t force them to make that choice. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/51 "2010-10-12T15:41:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m not sure why you are focusing on the “fringe”. I picked AH because she’s pretty comparable to Beck in terms of media presence and audience. I don’t think either one constitutes the “fringe”. I’m saying someone with more extreme views than Huffington might have made statements more comparable to Beck’s. > [@](#): > > She’s preaching the kind of stuff that could easily be picked up by the anti-globalization crowd. A group whose more radical members regularly riot in the streets. Yeah, they’ve been known to throw a garbage can through a store window from time to time. That’s a little like shooting at cops on your way to kill 11 people. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/52 "2010-10-12T15:44:39Z")
> [@](#): > > She’s preaching the kind of stuff that could easily be picked up by the anti-globalization crowd. A group whose more radical members regularly riot in the streets. I haven’t read the book, have you? So I don’t know the kind of language she uses in it. But if it’s the same kind of call-to-arms fear-mongering rhetoric that Beck uses, then yes, she is repsonsible when mulitple lone wolves or groups pick up arms as a response. And I think that’s a key to this: If one isolated person or group acts out, it can probably be written off as a nutter. When more than one person or group takes up arms in response to the words, it’s a pattern and a problem. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/53 "2010-10-12T15:45:03Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > > > No one in Ariana Huffington’s audience, as far as I know, has ever strapped on some body armour, packed their mom’s pickup truck with ammo and guns, and then headed off to shoot some conservatives-- (snip)– > > As far as you know… But what if it did happen? Would Huffington be held accountable, by you, for the actions of some liberal loony toon who took her words as an unspoken order to kill? I say no. And if I owned a star ship, I would conquer the planet too. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/54 "2010-10-12T16:29:34Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Let us not forget how violent videogames and music were blames for specific attrocities like Columbine. Stupidly and inaccurately, yes. The thing is, FPS games are pretend, and Ozzy and Marilyn Manson put on acts. They sing about some fucked up things, but they still don’t tell anyone their lives are in peril. Beck is pretending (in my opinion) but doesn’t say so, and he does tell people they’re in danger. How similar is that? > [@](#): > > But this begs the question, that is impossible to answer, of whether or not this guy might have done something similar if Glenn Beck didn’t do what he does. Lots of people do what Glenn Beck does. Narrowing it down to just Beck obscures the issue, I think. > [@](#): > > Crazy people do crazy things for crazy reasons. The problem is that this is a tautology, and it’s a facile analysis. Yes, crazy people do crazy things, and Byron Williams is a crazy racist alcoholic ex-con. There’s no avoiding that. And even if you leave out the crazies, there are lots of gullible people. I think most of Beck’s viewers know he’s full of crap but see him as essentially correct about some issues. People who are dumb or crazy don’t make the distinction between the “real” stuff and the fake stuff. > [@](#): > > That said, I still think he’s irresponsible in general, not so much that he might incite similar acts of violence, but because he surely is aware that even generally adjusted people live in greater fear because of what he does. I agree. That’s what I was saying earlier. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/55 "2010-10-12T17:08:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > > > Let us not forget how violent videogames and music were blames for specific attrocities like Columbine. > > Stupidly and inaccurately, yes. The thing is, FPS games are pretend, and Ozzy and Marilyn Manson put on acts. They sing about some fucked up things, but they still don’t tell anyone their lives are in peril. Beck is pretending (in my opinion) but doesn’t say so, and he does tell people they’re in danger. How similar is that? Good old Ozzy, rousing the rabble, getting all the haters stirred up etc. He sure does push the “hate thing” doesn’t he 😉 > [@Ozzy in CrazyTrain](#): > > Crazy, but that’s how it goes > Millions of people living as foes > Maybe it’s not too late > To learn how to love > And forget how to hate… ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/56 "2010-10-12T17:41:03Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > > [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > > > As far as you know… But what if it did happen? Would Huffington be held accountable, by you, for the actions of some liberal loony toon who took her words as an unspoken order to kill? I say no. > > And if I owned a star ship, I would conquer the planet too. So your response is to dismiss the idea of a violent liberal as far too wild to ever actually be true? Believe it or not, some liberals turn to violence, too. Recall the 2008 GOP convention in St. Paul. It happens. And who is responsible? Talking heads on TV? Internet bloggers? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/57 "2010-10-12T17:56:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Stupidly and inaccurately, yes. The thing is, FPS games are pretend, and Ozzy and Marilyn Manson put on acts. They sing about some fucked up things, but they still don’t tell anyone their lives are in peril. Beck is pretending (in my opinion) but doesn’t say so, and he does tell people they’re in danger. How similar is that? Stupidly and inaccurately, yes, but not all such forms of entertainment is an act. As a point, I’d point out some bands from the Norwegian Black Metal scene, particularly the infamous story of Mayhem involving Dead and Euronymous. And even though people may do that sort of thing with absolute seriousness, they still don’t bare the responsibility of people who follow through or copycat. Whether or not the message is genuine or part of an act is irrelevant, as individuals may well be inspired by the message, regardless of the intention behind it. With Glenn Beck, I don’t think he believes everything he says, but I don’t think it’s just an act either. The way he strikes me is as someone who sensationalizes his pespectives on issues because it’s the sensationalism that sells and, over time, he’s started to believe more and more of that sensationalism simply because he’s immersed in it constantly. This is exactly the same sort of thing I’ve seen from other individuals who follow along with that sort of sensationalism; they’re attracted to it because they agree with some of it, and over time, without appropriate balance, they drift more and more to that extreme. But this is the same with any sort of influence I see often when individuals are immersed heavily in any particular type of one-sided message. I’ve seen individuals who see metal primarily as an expression for anger, who inevitably favor the sub-genres of metal that lean that way, become generally angrier and more nihilistic. Just as I’ve seen individuals who heavily favor the darker and depressing sub-genres become more solemn and withdrawn. In many of these cases, when I’ve actually met some of these bands, they’re generally pretty cheerful, down to Earth people… but not always. Regardless, the influence of the message doesn’t seem meaningfully linked to the intention of the message, that individuals will respond roughly the same in any case. > [@](#): > > Lots of people do what Glenn Beck does. Narrowing it down to just Beck obscures the issue, I think. Perhaps poorly stated on my part. In this particular case, Glenn Beck is seen as baring some responsibility, but I’m more interested in any particular entity that is blamed for any sort of attrocious behavior. This seems like a somewhat common behavior, to see attrocious behavior and some correlated influence is inevitably blamed by some portion of the public. > [@](#): > > The problem is that this is a tautology, and it’s a facile analysis. Yes, crazy people do crazy things, and Byron Williams is a crazy racist alcoholic ex-con. There’s no avoiding that. And even if you leave out the crazies, there are lots of gullible people. I think most of Beck’s viewers know he’s full of crap but see him as essentially correct about some issues. People who are dumb or crazy don’t make the distinction between the “real” stuff and the fake stuff. Fair enough. It’s more the idea that, if these people can’t differentiate between real and fake, what do we do? If there is no causal link between these various influences and the behavior of the crazies, then these reactions are just as sensationalist and contributing to the problem. If there is a causal link, how strong does it have to be before we do something, and what should we do? I’m of the opinion that it is an unfortunate consequence of our liberties, and I’m unwilling to do anything about it without some pretty serious evidence about exactly how strong that link is. Others seem to want to do something even with little or no evidence that there’s any link at all. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/58 "2010-10-12T18:04:44Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > And if I owned a star ship, I would conquer the planet too. > > So your response is to dismiss the idea of a violent liberal as far too wild to ever actually be true? Believe it or not, some liberals turn to violence, too. Recall the 2008 GOP convention in St. Paul. It happens. And who is responsible? Talking heads on TV? Internet bloggers? I dismiss it. I dismiss it as something tha has not even come close to happening, I dismiss it as a strawman, I dismiss it as a fantasy made up to isllustrate absloutely nothin, I dismiss it as being too ridiculous to even consider. I’m calling it bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/59 "2010-10-12T18:11:20Z")
> **[2008 Republican National Convention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Republican_National_Convention)** > > The 2008 Republican National Convention took place at the Xcel Energy Center (now Grand Casino Arena) in Saint Paul, Minnesota, from September 1, through September 4, 2008. The first day of the Republican Party's convention fell on Labor Day, the last day of the popular Minnesota State Fair, though because of Hurricane Gustav, this day was mostly a call for action to help victims and formal, required activities; most of the politicking and partying did not start until Tuesday, the second sched > [@](#): > > The convention was marked by peaceful demonstrations and unusually strong police presence in Saint Paul. Hundreds of arrests resulted in mostly dropped charges. … > Before the convention began, search warrants were executed by Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher[49] in coordination with the Federal Bureau of Investigation.[50] Six persons who were a part of the organizing group, the RNC Welcoming Committee, were arrested when police executed search warrants on a handful of homes in Minneapolis and Saint Paul during the weekend preceding the convention.[51] > > Media outlets reported on several of the searches.[52] Given the nature of the probable cause for the warrant applications, a district court judge authorized no-knock warrants. Police entered the homes wearing body armor with weapons drawn, which is standard for no-knock warrants.[52] RNC Welcoming Committee members detained at the group’s headquarters, located in an old theater on Saint Paul’s West Side, were ultimately arrested by Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher of misdemeanor fire code violations … > On the first day of the convention, a group of protesters stood in front of approximately 30 to 40 delegates from Connecticut in an attempt to prevent them from entering the convention. Paramedics had to treat 83-year-old member of the delegation for breathing problems when his credentials were ripped from his neck by a protester.[53] Additionally, a black bloc smashed windows of downtown businesses, smashed windows and slashed the tires several police cars, lit one police car on fire, and used a garbage dumpster as a battering ram against another.[53] About 12 protesters were arrested.[53][dead link] > > Minnesota Peace Team and police in Saint Paul on September 4, 2008During the convention’s first three days, more than 300[3] individuals were detained by police,[54] including journalists (AP photographer Matt Rourke was one),[55] healthcare workers and lawyer observers.[56] Some were released, but nearly half received felony charges.[56] Of these felony arrests, many cases were dropped or reviewed, some times for lesser charges, and about 21 were found to be prosecutable About 102 persons were arrested for unlawful assembly at a Rage Against the Machine concert … > Over the four days of the convention, more than 30 journalists were arrested while reporting on the protests. The arrests included journalists from national organizations such as AP and Democracy Now!, journalists from local radio and TV stations, as well as university journalism students and advisors.[58] > > Three journalists from Democracy Now!—including principal host Amy Goodman—were detained by police during their reporting on the protests.[59] According to a press release by Democracy Now!, Goodman was arrested after confronting officers regarding the arrest of her colleagues. The officers were in the midst of crowd control, and ordered Goodman to move back. She was arrested after refusing the officer’s orders.[60] all were held on charges of “probable cause for riot”.[61] Several news sources have criticized the arrest as unlawful and a violation of the freedom of the press,[62] and warned of the “chilling effects” of such measures ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789/60 "2010-10-12T18:12:01Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > And if I owned a star ship, I would conquer the planet too. > > So your response is to dismiss the idea of a violent liberal as far too wild to ever actually be true? Believe it or not, some liberals turn to violence, too. Recall the 2008 GOP convention in St. Paul. It happens. And who is responsible? Talking heads on TV? Internet bloggers? Most of the time the police. Beck absolutely preaches violence ,thinly disguised, to some who are not well. His peeps are the angry easily led tea baggers. He reaches those who feel cheated by the system, not realizing their disenfranchisement is due to the upper class. The ultimate choice is the person who does the deed. But those who push it are not free of blame. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-glen-beck-fox-news-responsible-for-this-guys-attempted-mass-murder/556789.md?page=4)