# Is God a bigot ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873 "2011-04-01T22:37:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/21 "2011-04-03T05:24:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Bigotry is hating someone because of something they can’t change. One of the core tenants of restrictive Christianity is that anyone can change and become a Christian. Except for the ones that believe you can’t do crap-all about whether you become a Christian, that god’s choice is basically random and that if you chose god, that means god chose you. I once knew the daughter of a Calvinist (sp?) preacher who believed all that. Nasty fellow, hit his wife, had both his daughters convinced femininity was evil (she described it being “a battle” every time she did her hair or put on makeup), the entire family is on youtube protesting against the existence of some abortion clinic. She kept trying to claim I was broken and lost and all sorts of ridiculous things. When I asked why she never lifted a damn finger about her household situation she said it was because, and I quote, “I deserve the same things he does”. They may be a fringe group, but his god, and consequently hers, was definitely a bigot by the definition you gave. I don’t know if the OP was referring to the god of all strict Christians, or the god of all fundamentalist nuts, or just the god of garden-variety fundamentalist nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/22 "2011-04-04T03:10:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That may be true of some sects of Christianity. But it’s not the position of, for example, the RCC. You might want to check your premise. AFAIK, the position of the RCC is that you can go to heaven if nobody ever tells you about the Word, but if you know about Christ and don’t believe then you’re shit out of luck. Not so? ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/23 "2011-04-04T05:00:14Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > If you don’t know God or say that you are not His child then He is under no obligation to take you and **it would be improper for Him to do so**. Oh yes. God knows it would be quite the breach in etiquette. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/24 "2011-04-04T07:07:39Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The questions that God uses basically are ‘do you know me?’ and ‘are you my child?’ If so He takes us back home before this world basically goes to hell. If you don’t know God or say that you are not His child then He is under no obligation to take you and it would be improper for Him to do so. I don’t know you, **kanicbird** , and I’m pretty sure I’m not your child. But as kooky as you are, I’m pretty sure that if you looked out your front window, and saw me freezing to death in the street, you’d take me in rather than let me die. Do you really think your god would be any less charitable? ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/25 "2011-04-04T08:15:29Z")
Is God a bigot. Looking around, I’d say he certainly seems to favor white people. ---
**Author:** ![SimonMoon5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@SimonMoon5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SimonMoon5)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/26 "2011-04-05T20:06:06Z")
Didn’t this character once tell some people that they were his “chosen people”, thereby specifically choosing one group of people he liked over all other people? That definitely seems discriminatory if not bigoted. Of course, he’s guilty of much worse crimes than that. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/27 "2011-04-05T22:43:54Z")
> [@SimonMoon5](#): > > Didn’t this character once tell some people that they were his “chosen people”, thereby specifically choosing one group of people he liked over all other people? That definitely seems discriminatory if not bigoted. > > Of course, he’s guilty of much worse crimes than that. According to Jewish tradition, the Hebrews were the only people who accepted the offer. As a result, we have over six hundred more laws to follow than everyone else. Oh, and I’m pretty sure Jews haven’t had it easy in the last four thousand years, don’t you agree? That being said, this thread needs to specify that we are talking about the Christian concept of God. > [@](#): > > Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. > > […] > > Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d’s chosen people, we do not believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as “at the foot of the mountain” literally mean “underneath the mountain”!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d’s might rather than their own ability. \*\*Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations. \*\* > > [Jewish Attitudes Toward Non-Jews - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)](http://www.jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm) People…stop lumping one religion with another. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/28 "2011-04-05T22:54:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > AFAIK, the position of the RCC is that you can go to heaven if nobody ever tells you about the Word, but if you know about Christ and don’t believe then you’re shit out of luck. Not so? In Dante the virtuous pagans were in the First Circle of Hell, certainly not in the lake of fire or being tortured but also not in heaven. I don’t know if they pussified the faith since then. And God having rules about who goes to heaven and not telling most of the world about them reminds me of the Vogons somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/29 "2011-04-05T22:57:18Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > According to Jewish tradition, the Hebrews were the only people who accepted the offer. As a result, we have over six hundred more laws to follow than everyone else. Oh, and I’m pretty sure Jews haven’t had it easy in the last four thousand years, don’t you agree? > People…stop lumping one religion with another. I learned that we got chosen in the same way you get chosen for a suicide mission. It is also interesting that the tradition has God doing the choice to show evidence of his power, which is similar to God’s actions in Exodus. Contrast to the current Christian view, which seems to be that if God gives any convincing evidence of his existence belief doesn’t count anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/30 "2011-04-06T00:14:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In Dante the virtuous pagans were in the First Circle of Hell, certainly not in the lake of fire or being tortured but also not in heaven. I don’t know if they pussified the faith since then. Dante wasn’t ever official canon, as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/31 "2011-04-06T01:50:05Z")
> [@SimonMoon5](#): > > Didn’t this character once tell some people that they were his “chosen people”, thereby specifically choosing one group of people he liked over all other people? That definitely seems discriminatory if not bigoted. > > Of course, he’s guilty of much worse crimes than that. The chosen people were chosen because they were the least of the peoples. Basically you had no chance in this world without me so I chose you (to make a fool of the devil and his ways). ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/32 "2011-04-06T02:39:41Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The chosen people were chosen because they were the least of the peoples. Basically you had no chance in this world without me so I chose you (to make a fool of the devil and his ways). Are you serious, mate? Any religion calls themselves the chosen people. Ours just doesn’t proclaim to be better than anyone else, nor do we have the “key to Heaven” or a free pass to 99 virgins upon our death. Anyone can become a Jew. It’s not a secret club. You don’t have to be Jewish to be a good person, or righteous, or useful, or any of that. Hell, belief in God is not required to stay Jewish. In Judaism, being Jewish means that you are expected to adhere to the covenant. If you don’t, you’re not banned. Woody Allen is still Jewish. If you want to join the tribe, then you have to be Orthodox. Doesn’t sound very fair, but then again, why would you want to be Jewish if you weren’t going to obey the rules? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/33 "2011-04-06T03:00:01Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Are you serious, mate? > > Any religion calls themselves the chosen people. Ours just doesn’t proclaim to be better than anyone else, nor do we have the “key to Heaven” or a free pass to 99 virgins upon our death. > > Anyone can become a Jew. It’s not a secret club. You don’t have to be Jewish to be a good person, or righteous, or useful, or any of that. Hell, belief in God is not required to stay Jewish. > > In Judaism, being Jewish means that you are expected to adhere to the covenant. If you don’t, you’re not banned. Woody Allen is still Jewish. > > If you want to join the tribe, then you have to be Orthodox. Doesn’t sound very fair, but then again, why would you want to be Jewish if you weren’t going to obey the rules? I was referring to Deut 7:7 > [@](#): > > 7"(A)The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/34 "2011-04-06T03:08:35Z")
> [@2ply](#): > > Is God a bigot. Looking around, I’d say he certainly seems to favor white people. I don’t think there are many white beetles though :), it was said that an entomologist once said that “the creator seems to have an inordinate fondness for beetles”. Beetles constitute about a quarter of all species on our planet. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/35 "2011-04-06T13:41:42Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I was referring to Deut 7:7 The way you wrote “least” made it sound a lot different and your verse is completely out of context. ז לֹא מֵרֻבְּכֶם מִכָּל-הָעַמִּים, חָשַׁק יְהוָה בָּכֶם–וַיִּבְחַר בָּכֶם: כִּי-אַתֶּם הַמְעַט, מִכָּל-הָעַמִּים. 7 The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people–for ye were the fewest of all peoples– ח כִּי מֵאַהֲבַת יְהוָה אֶתְכֶם, וּמִשָּׁמְרוֹ אֶת-הַשְּׁבֻעָה אֲשֶׁר נִשְׁבַּע לַאֲבֹתֵיכֶם, הוֹצִיא יְהוָה אֶתְכֶם, בְּיָד חֲזָקָה; וַיִּפְדְּךָ מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים, מִיַּד פַּרְעֹה מֶלֶךְ-מִצְרָיִם. 8 but because the LORD loved you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/36 "2011-04-06T15:18:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > =I think that would qualify more as megalomania and sadism. I don’t know somehow calling god a megalomaniac seems to me like calling a mob informant paranoid. You’re not paranoid if they really are all out to get you, and your not a megalomaniac if you really are god. But as far as bigotry, the old testament god is definitely a bigot. How can’t he be with that whole chosen people thing going. ---
**Author:** ![SimonMoon5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@SimonMoon5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SimonMoon5)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/37 "2011-04-06T16:00:56Z")
Well, okay, if the character under discussion is the Christian deity only and not the deity of Judaic tradition, then I’d still say that this character has serious discrimination/bigotry issues. After all, this character starts off laying down some strict rules which, if not followed, send a person to be tormented for ever and ever and ever and ever (in the Christian tradition and not in the Judaic tradition). And these rules are so strict that apparently nobody in the entire world can obey them. And most people aren’t even told what the rules are… only the people in some geographically small area of the world (no Native Americans are told, for example, unless you accept the works of the Mormon founder). But there’s a “get out of hell free” card… only, again, only a geographically very small part of the world (at the time) can even know about this “get out of hell free” card, making the character of God seem very uninterested in whether or not the vast majority of people on the planet are tormented forever and ever and ever. What a dick. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/38 "2011-04-06T18:04:10Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > The way you wrote “least” made it sound a lot different and your verse is completely out of context. > > ז לֹא מֵרֻבְּכֶם מִכָּל-הָעַמִּים, חָשַׁק יְהוָה בָּכֶם–וַיִּבְחַר בָּכֶם: כִּי-אַתֶּם הַמְעַט, מִכָּל-הָעַמִּים. 7 The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people–for ye were the fewest of all peoples– > ח כִּי מֵאַהֲבַת יְהוָה אֶתְכֶם, וּמִשָּׁמְרוֹ אֶת-הַשְּׁבֻעָה אֲשֶׁר נִשְׁבַּע לַאֲבֹתֵיכֶם, הוֹצִיא יְהוָה אֶתְכֶם, בְּיָד חֲזָקָה; וַיִּפְדְּךָ מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים, מִיַּד פַּרְעֹה מֶלֶךְ-מִצְרָיִם. 8 but because the LORD loved you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. So in other words they had no chance in Hell of making it if it was not for the Lord loving them so much. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/39 "2011-04-06T23:46:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > AFAIK, the position of the RCC is that you can go to heaven if nobody ever tells you about the Word, but if you know about Christ and don’t believe then you’re shit out of luck. Not so? I’ve heard this before, but I’ve never been able to pin down if it was ever part of any official Christian doctrine. If it were true, it seems to me that the most evil thing a person could possibly do, is to become a missionary. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873/40 "2011-04-07T05:18:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > AFAIK, the position of the RCC is that you can go to heaven if nobody ever tells you about the Word, but if you know about Christ and don’t believe then you’re shit out of luck. Not so? Nope – basically the position of the Catholic Church is that while Catholicism/Christianity is the SUREST way to get to Heaven, nobody knows God’s will. As a kid, I was always given the impression that Hell was for really, REALLY bad people (rapists, murderers, etc) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-a-bigot/576873.md?page=3)