# Is God ever a foreigner? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 13, 2011, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517 "2011-10-13T10:35:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/1 "2011-10-13T10:35:52Z")
In monotheistic religions, is the God of choice always of the same race as the believers? Is the God ever a foreigner? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/2 "2011-10-13T10:50:14Z")
Define ‘god’. I don’t think the god of the Abrahamic religions has a nationality. People who believe in him tend say he’s ineffable, outside the human sphere. If you take Buddhism, in as much as Buddha is a god (which he isn’t, but I would argue that some versions of Buddhism treat him as such), those sects that worship Sakyamuni/Gautama/Siddhattha Buddha acknowledge that he was from India. The Yaohnanen in Vanuatu worship Prince Philip. They’re very aware that he’s British. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/3 "2011-10-13T11:28:08Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I don’t think the god of the Abrahamic religions has a nationality. People who believe in him tend say he’s ineffable, outside the human sphere. Last I checked, He didn’t have either a race or a nationality. His representations include a dove (which isn’t even the same _species_ as His worshippers) and male humans of vastly varying ages and races. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/4 "2011-10-13T11:38:54Z")
I think the answer is yes. According to the Trinity (accepted by most Christians), Jesus Christ was, himself, the Monotheistic God. Since Jesus was Jewish, any non-Jewish believers would therefore be worshiping a God that was of Jewish ethnicity and whatever nationality Jesus would have been ascribed to at the time. ---
**Author:** ![ecseas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ecseas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ecseas)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/5 "2011-10-13T11:53:28Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I think the answer is yes. According to the Trinity (accepted by most Christians), Jesus Christ was, himself, the Monotheistic God. Since Jesus was Jewish, any non-Jewish believers would therefore be worshiping a God that was of Jewish ethnicity and whatever nationality Jesus would have been ascribed to at the time. Jesus took a human vessel, as such. I’ve gone to catholic schools all my life, and IMO, everything made it seem like jesus’s body was kind of like vessel. Once he died and went to heaven again, his human form slipped away. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/6 "2011-10-13T12:04:25Z")
If God is a spirit then he would not be any nationality. He would be invisible. The word God itself(in any language) has had different meanings through the ages.At least it seems that way when one studies ancient history. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/7 "2011-10-13T12:09:53Z")
What about Rastafarianism? The majority of followers were not of Ethiopian nationality, but worshiped the King of Ethiopia. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/8 "2011-10-13T12:28:04Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > What about Rastafarianism? The majority of followers were not of Ethiopian nationality, but worshiped the King of Ethiopia. Rastafarianism was founded within (and is a major expression of) pan-African nationalism. As I understand it the whole point _was_ to assert a common nationality with the deity. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/9 "2011-10-13T12:49:43Z")
I agree that God is a spirit, but whenever religions depict a physical manifestation of God, He (and it’s nearly always a He), appears to have the same racial characteristics as His followers. Christianity, for example - as far as I am aware - doesn’t show God as being black, or Far Eastern. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/10 "2011-10-13T12:57:27Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > Christianity, for example - as far as I am aware - doesn’t show God as being black, or Far Eastern. Actually, many Western images of the Christ-child and Mary have depicted them as Black, since medieval times. Google “Black Madonna” for details. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/11 "2011-10-13T12:59:26Z")
Jesus was a foreigner: > [@](#): > > John 18:36 > Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.” And there are many such verses. Also His mission was sent out from the Jewish people to the gentiles, so to the gentiles Jesus would be doubly so. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/12 "2011-10-13T13:13:10Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Actually, many Western images of the Christ-child and Mary have depicted them as Black, since medieval times. Google “Black Madonna” for details. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Jesus was a foreigner: > And there are many such verses. Also His mission was sent out from the Jewish people to the gentiles, so to the gentiles Jesus would be doubly so. I was referring to the God itself. Weren’t Jesus and The Madonna earthly representatives of God’s divinity, and not actually the God? What I am querying is whether the actual spiritual God has been shown - or even thought of -as being visibly dissimilar to His followers when represented in a physical form. ETA: Wiki, under Black theology says: The aspects of God’s person, his power and authority, as well as “subtle indications of God’s white maleness” are said not to relate to the black experience, to the extent of sometimes being antagonistic. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/13 "2011-10-13T13:15:32Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I was referring to the God itself. Weren’t Jesus and The Madonna earthly representatives of God’s divinity, and not actually the God? What I am querying is whether the actual spiritual God has been shown - or even thought of -as being visibly dissimilar to His followers when represented in a physical form. How about the Mt Olympus gods then? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/14 "2011-10-13T13:15:43Z")
How about depictions in popular media? In Bruce Jay Friedman’s play _Steambath_, God is portrayed as a Puerto Rican steam bath attendant. (Not foreign, to a U.S. audience, but heavily “ethnic”). Hector Elizondo originally played him Off-Broadway. There were many other performances, and a showing on Showtime evidently sparked a brief series, with God as a character. > **[Steambath (play)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steambath_%28play%29)** > > Steambath is the second play by American author Bruce Jay Friedman. It was first performed Off-Broadway at the Truck and Warehouse Theater where it opened on June 30, 1970, closing on October 18, 1970 after 128 performances. > This play presents the afterlife as a steam bath, in which recently deceased souls (who may not in every case realize that they are dead) continue to obsess about the same petty concerns that obsessed them in their lives. Ultimately, they are cast into another room offstage ... ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/15 "2011-10-13T13:18:40Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > How about the Mt Olympus gods then? They, because of their plurality, weren’t monotheistic gods. Ref: my OP. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/16 "2011-10-13T13:19:10Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I was referring to the God itself. Weren’t Jesus and The Madonna earthly representatives of God’s divinity, and not actually the God? What I am querying is whether the actual spiritual God has been shown - or even thought of -as being visibly dissimilar to His followers when represented in a physical form. And for that matter deamonism/satanism (the real devil worship type, not the church of Satan/humanism type.) ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/17 "2011-10-13T14:39:38Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I agree that God is a spirit, but whenever religions depict a physical manifestation of God, He (and it’s nearly always a He), appears to have the same racial characteristics as His followers. Christianity, for example - as far as I am aware - doesn’t show God as being black, or Far Eastern. You are aware that there are a great many black Christians, right? Not to mention a great many Asian Christians. [In fact, as of 1991, the number of Asian Christians in the world exceeded the number of Christians in the Western world (both white and black).](http://beyondallreasonabledoubt.wordpress.com/2011/09/16/christianity-is-a-western-white-mans-religion/) ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/18 "2011-10-13T14:54:13Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > You are aware that there are a great many black Christians, right? Not to mention a great many Asian Christians. [In fact, as of 1991, the number of Asian Christians in the world exceeded the number of Christians in the Western world (both white and black).](http://beyondallreasonabledoubt.wordpress.com/2011/09/16/christianity-is-a-western-white-mans-religion/) I am. But my question remains: how do black and Asian Christians see God? As white, black or Asian? Or something else? ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/19 "2011-10-13T15:49:47Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I was referring to the God itself. Weren’t Jesus and The Madonna earthly representatives of God’s divinity, and not actually the God? What I am querying is whether the actual spiritual God has been shown - or even thought of -as being visibly dissimilar to His followers when represented in a physical form. Quick answer: no. Mary is human-only (though without original sin, in Catholic doctrine). Jesus is God-made-man, thus both fully human and fully God (in Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant doctrines alike). But I’m not sure your question means anything for monotheistic religions, most of the time. If you portray the one all-powerful deity in human form, you’re just illustrating them, not revealing any fundamental essence; or in stories, the deity is adopting a form, rather than revealing its essence. And if you mean portrayals, then yes, the God of Christianity is _most often_ portrayed visually as dissimilar to his followers, e.g. as a dove or lamb or (just) a hand or a ray of light or… ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517/20 "2011-10-13T15:55:42Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I am. But my question remains: how do black and Asian Christians see God? As white, black or Asian? Or something else? They often depict even Jesus and his family (which, as has been pointed out, were Jews) as being from their own race(s) and often dressed in local dress, as do Latin Americans or Europeans. Google images “belén africano” for example (“belén andino” brings up pics of Nativities where the images wear traditional Peruvian or Ecuatorian dress, but also lots of chicks). The Trinity is less common (it is less common in general nowadays than it was during the Romanic period, when you had Pantocrators and Trinities all over the place), but when it appears it is also often “localized” to whichever color the artist happened to be. But how you depict them and what you knew/believe them to be are different things, and the people who think God-the-Father really looks like Jupiter seeking someone upon whose ass to unleash some thunderbolts weren’t paying attention in catechesis. I keep hearing _Angelitos negros_ (black angels), man… Painter, you who paint with love, why do you despise your own color when you know that in Heaven we are welcome too… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-ever-a-foreigner/599517.md?page=2)