# Is God real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 1, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750 "2013-01-01T15:49:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/61 "2013-01-01T22:04:29Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > You know exactly what I am talking about, when man can say he knows all their is to know about matter, energy, space, etc he may then have a right to claim their is no God. The claims of an athiest are beyond grossly premature and purely egotistical in nature. > [@Telemark](#): > > When do we get to claim there are no invisible pink unicorns? Actually, I believe he’s paraphrasing one of Paul’s epistles. Badly. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/62 "2013-01-01T22:04:39Z")
> [@](#): > > The ability to say “I don’t know, yet” when we don’t know something, instead of looking into the darkness and stating as fact “Here there be [del]monsters[/del]God.” This statement is a direct contradiction of your denying the possiblity of God. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/63 "2013-01-01T22:10:37Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > This statement is a direct contradiction of your denying the possiblity of God. I understand where you’re trying to go with this, but careful reading should make it clear that it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/64 "2013-01-01T22:16:12Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > _The ability to say “I don’t know, yet” when we don’t know something, instead of looking into the darkness and stating as fact “Here there be [del]monsters[/del]God.”_ > [@](#): > > This statement is a direct contradiction of your denying the possiblity of God. No, it isn’t. There are more possibilities for the darkness than “God is there” and “God isn’t there.” As far as your God goes, before we can discuss whether or not it exists, you first must tell us of it’s attributes to see if it _is_ possible for it to exist. Is it a sentient all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful being that is incapable of doing anything evil, or is just a another word for “The Universe”? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/65 "2013-01-01T22:29:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, it isn’t. There are more possibilities for the darkness than “God is there” and “God isn’t there.” As far as your God goes, before we can discuss whether or not it exists, you first must tell us of it’s attributes to see if it _is_ possible for it to exist. Is it a sentient all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful being that is incapable of doing anything evil, or is just a another word for “The Universe”? I have no clue and don’t pretent to. My mind is not developed enough to comprehend what a true God might be. I doubt yours or anyone elses is either. As a human I am forced to develop a concept that I am capable of comprehending and do the best I can with it. Simply because we are capable of making decisions means we will make decisions. A believer in God accepts that certain decisions have been made for us and we do not have to burden ourselves with that responsiblity or trust anyone else with that huge responsiblity. The more advanced civilization becomes the more need we have for a God as the consequences of our decisions simply will have more affect. An athiest seems incapable of grasping this because of a lower level of consiousness I assume. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/66 "2013-01-01T22:35:19Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I have no clue and don’t pretent to. My mind is not developed enough to comprehend what a true God might be. I doubt yours or anyone elses is either. As a human I am forced to develop a concept that I am capable of comprehending and do the best I can with it. Simply because we are capable of making decisions means we will make decisions. A believer in God accepts that certain decisions have been made for us and we do not have to burden ourselves with that responsiblity or trust anyone else with that huge responsiblity. The more advanced civilization becomes the more need we have for a God as the consequences of our decisions simply will have more affect. An athiest seems incapable of grasping this because of a lower level of consiousness I assume. If you can’t describe it in any way, why should I spend any time at all thinking about it’s existence? How much time do _you_ spend thinking about the existence of therafigs? I can’t tell you anything aboutshe/he/ it/them, but what are you doing to appease she/he/it/them? edited to add: I doubt very much that you have NO idea as to your god’s attributes-there must be some reason you worship it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/67 "2013-01-01T22:44:51Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I have no clue and don’t pretent to. My mind is not developed enough to comprehend what a true God might be. I doubt yours or anyone elses is either. Right, the argument from ignorance for agnosticism. The problem is this: just because you don’t think you could comprehend what’s going on doesn’t mean anyone else is going to agree, and by its nature this kind of argument is unpersuasive. “I don’t know how I could be right or what it would mean or how any of it would work, but I could be right because there’s stuff we don’t know!” Which always makes it weird when people make this argument in a very aggressive manner. > [@](#): > > The more advanced civilization becomes the more need we have for a God as the consequences of our decisions simply will have more affect. Which is why civilizations become less and less theocratic as they develop. Wait… ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/68 "2013-01-01T22:45:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you can’t describe it in any way, why should I spend any time at all thinking about it’s existence? How much time do _you_ spend thinking about the existence of therafigs? I can’t tell you anything aboutshe/he/ it/them, but what are you doing to appease she/he/it/them? > > edited to add: I doubt very much that you have NO idea as to your god’s attributes-there must be some reason you worship it. There is no need for you to spend anytime thinking about it, you guys do a great job unlocking many of the mysteries of science, something you know a bit about. By the same token you need to stay out of spiritual issues because you know nothing about them and they have no relation to what you do in science. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/69 "2013-01-01T22:48:55Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > There is no need for you to spend anytime thinking about it, you guys do a great job unlocking many of the mysteries of science, something you know a bit about. By the same token you need to stay out of spiritual issues because you know nothing about them and they have no relation to what you do in science. I do not recognize your authority to give such an order. _All_ doors are open to the science…even the ones you claim are closed to it. Don’t like it? Step aside. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/70 "2013-01-01T22:50:02Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > By the same token you need to stay out of spiritual issues because you know nothing about them and they have no relation to what you do in science. I imagine high priests in Egypt or Greece might’ve said the same thing to engineers who were trying to figure out the cycles that led to rivers flooding. Because of course the gods decided when the river flooded and it wasn’t for scientists to meddle in that domain… until of course it was science and scientific study produced a result that benefited everybody. In other words, you’re now using a god of the gaps argument. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/71 "2013-01-01T22:52:14Z")
No I am not going to step aside because truth in the name of science where no science even applies can be very dangerous. Science uses ridicule and rejection as a means of forcing their beliefs on a general population, religion has done the same thing. As I said scientists have no business stating their views on faith in the name of science. It is grossly irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/72 "2013-01-01T22:54:41Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > There is no need for you to spend anytime thinking about it, you guys do a great job unlocking many of the mysteries of science, something you know a bit about. By the same token you need to stay out of spiritual issues because you know nothing about them and they have no relation to what you do in science. There are no spiritual issues. “Spiritual” is a nonsense word. If pretending that there is an omniscient being behind the universe lowers your anxiety, that’s okay. But that doesn’t mean it’s real. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/73 "2013-01-01T22:55:51Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > No I am not going to step aside Not that it matters; researchers aren’t going to pay attention to stuff like this. > [@](#): > > because truth in the name of science where no science even applies can be very dangerous. Why do non-scientists get to define where science belongs and what it can do? That’s very much a fox-guarding-the-henhouse situation. I’m not sure I trust anyone who blathers about where science “applies” or “belongs.” > [@](#): > > Science uses ridicule and rejection as a means of forcing their beliefs on a general population Science doesn’t have beliefs. > [@](#): > > As I said scientists have no business stating their views on faith in the name of science. It is grossly irresponsible. Why do scientists have to surrender their opinions on everything else to please the crowd, and why is it irresponsible? If people have faith, surely some commentary from mere scientists won’t damage it. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/74 "2013-01-01T23:11:56Z")
Hell, I can’t even prove that reality is real. I could just be imagining all of you. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/75 "2013-01-01T23:15:21Z")
Theists had better just keep God in the metaphysical realm that way they can talk till the cows come home, and no one is ever the wiser. To ever define it in any quantifiable terms, God goes away. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > A believer in God accepts that certain decisions have been made for us and we do not have to burden ourselves with that responsiblity or trust anyone else with that huge responsiblity. What certain responsibilities do you suppose a believer no longer has to burden themselves with? > [@](#): > > The more advanced civilization becomes the more need we have for a God as the consequences of our decisions simply will have more affect. I would have thought the opposite. Thousands of years ago, gods were in high demand and everybody were asking favors from them. Nowadays, more atheists than ever populate the planet. Science, not God is needed more than ever to help keep up with the increasing agriculture and other technological demands that 7 billion people require. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/76 "2013-01-01T23:22:35Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I am not religious and base my beliefs of what I consider to be pure logic and not ego. Nonsense. If that was true you wouldn’t take the idea of “God” seriously because that’s a religious concept. The concept is derived entirely from religion. And not even religion in general but only a subset of it; a singular capital G god is hardly belief universal to religions. You are in the position of someone who claims to not be a fan of _Star Wars_, but who also insists that we must take the possibility that Darth Vader is real seriously. It doesn’t hold up. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > . The more advanced civilization becomes the more need we have for a God as the consequences of our decisions simply will have more affect. No; the more advanced we become, the more important it is to reject belief in God, and the cruelty & madness that comes with it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/77 "2013-01-01T23:25:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You are in the position of someone who claims to not be a fan of _Star Wars_, but who also insists that we must take the possibility that Darth Vader is real seriously. It doesn’t hold up. But if you don’t want to get force-choked, can you really take the risk? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/78 "2013-01-01T23:26:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > But if you don’t want to get force-choked, can you really take the risk? Ah, Darth Pascal’s wager. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/79 "2013-01-01T23:39:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ah, Darth Pascal’s wager. 😃 I’m also guessing that Ishmael (want to use the “T” word, but won’t) isn’t coming back to his Og-given thread. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750/80 "2013-01-01T23:54:59Z")
You seem to be having a hard time seperating the concept of God from religion. The most basic belief in God simply has him as a creator I believe. Religion will straighten itself out just as most social problems are attempting to do. I see a huge danger in getting science nvolved in social issues. On a side note, if we built a straight line knowledge graph, a rock would be at the bottom of the graph and all the knowledge their is to know would be at the top of the graph, this might include non physical things we have yet to discover. Now we put the smartest human to ever exist on the graph and then we put a cockroach on the graph. You would need a microscope to see the difference in the place on the graph from the human and the roach. I don’t feel this qualifies you to proclaim there is no God. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-real/645750.md?page=5)