# Is God Really THAT Full of Himself?? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 4, 2015, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186 "2015-03-04T07:43:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/41 "2015-03-04T20:50:42Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Even simpler yet, and a better fit to the facts as we know them, is to not have a god at all. > [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > #6 There has to be something to explain how we got here. “It just happened” just doesn’t cut it to any rational-thinking individual unless they think they can keep tossing the parts of a model airplane into the air and assume that eventually it will fall assembled. Not having an answer (or at least a definitive one) \> making up an answer. There’s nothing rational about assuming your god exists, and the universe isn’t preformed pieces of plastic, but rather the dynamic interplay of fundamental forces. ---
**Author:** ![SeekerofTruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@SeekerofTruth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeekerofTruth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/42 "2015-03-04T22:12:36Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > My understanding is that God desires reconciliation and relationship with humankind not out of unsatisfied ego, but out of love. God doesn’t _need_ our worship (or anything else from us) but God desires for us what we were created for - to exist with him in love. Worship and adoration is a natural (and inevitable) outcome of our knowing God. If God were doing it out of love He wouldn’t be holding eternal torment over our head as a punishment if we exercise our free will to choose not to accept His love. Do you threaten a woman with death you love if she chooses not to return your love? We have names for people who do–words, words like "neurotic’ “psychotic” and “sociopathic”. > [@Skammer](#): > > In other words God doesn’t have an insatiable desire to be worshiped; but out of love for us God has a powerful desire for us to be completely fulfilled with abundant life. God’s not a tyrant \*\*who demands obedience under threat of punishment \*\*but a loving parent who eagerly awaits reconciliation with a rebellious child. Of course He does. The Bible says, “And I will magnify Myself and glorify Myself.” The Bible is replete with such megalomaniacal proclamations from God. And re the highlighted above the Bible says "And these will go into everlasting torment, and they shall bundled up like branches and thrown into the flames, suffering God’s everlasting wrath of destruction by fire, whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, and other such delightfully sadistic warnings. > [@Skammer](#): > > ETA: By the way, contrary to the assertion in the OP, most scholars place the authorship of Mark well before the destruction of the temple. I’d argue with the phrase, “well before”. When would you place it–something like 40-45 AD to prove your point. It is obvious the writer of Mark knew the temple was in trouble because of the Romans. So the earliest Mark could be written is 67 CO when it became obvious the romans were going to destroy Jerusalem. The idea that this is prophecy from Jesus from 40 years earlier is simply ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/43 "2015-03-04T22:13:57Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Because such a God is psychopathically evil. Billions of people have lived horrendous lives and experienced unendurable cruelty as a result of this “growing process”. Any God with any commonality at all with the Judae-Christian God must have \*known \*that would be the result. But he did it anyway, for no better reason than he wants other people hundreds of thousands of years later to become “one” with him, whatever that means. > > The act is evil beyond all reason. It’s like throwing a puppy onto an ant heap, and then sitting back and watching it get devoured alive, only a trillion times worse. The fact that the person who engineered this didn’t directly control the ants, just “set natural laws into motion” doesn’t make them any less psychopathically evil. If the sole payoff is that the person who did this was going to do something nice to one of the puppies distant nephews, that makes the person even more evil and insane. > > It doesn’t matter how you slice it, the problem of evil remains. Traditional Christians try to temper it by saying that, while God fucked up and his mistake led to billions of people suffering unspeakable horrors, he at least has enough love that he is prepared to watch someone he actually cares about suffer to correct the problem and ensure all that suffering is compensated. > > That God is a sick, insane individual. Your God is simpler but just as sick. He is responding to his fuck up with depraved indifference rather than some Insane Troll Logic where he sacrifices himself to himself so he can change his own mind about torturing us all forever after we die, but he is just as evil and incomprehensibly insane. > > That’s why we can’t have such a God. If he does exist, he isn’t worthy of worship. Brilliant. Religion will never have a good answer to the question of evil. Natural selection answers the question of evil, but religion cannot rectify it with a just or caring god or with a world where the well being of conscious sentient beings matters. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/44 "2015-03-04T22:16:58Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > If God were doing it out of love He wouldn’t be holding eternal torment over our head as a punishment if we exercise our free will to choose not to accept His love. The person you’re responding to doesn’t believe in Hell, so you’re wasting your time on that tangent. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/45 "2015-03-04T22:27:36Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > Why can’t we just have a God who created the heavens and the earth, set natural laws into motion to govern things, put us on this earth to start a growing process spiritually that is just the first step in an eternity-long program to grow towards Oneness with God. Because life is full of suffering, misery, ignorance and pain. Any god who would ask/tell us to come here is evil and deserves to be ignored at best and destroyed/incarcerated at worst. Keep in mind that life still kind of sucks for a lot of people, and that is after hundreds of years of trying to make life better via medicine, science, technology, political reform, social reform, individual rights, etc. Imagine how bad it sucked in the 12th century when people had no medicine, no civil rights, no political rights, no laws against domestic violence, torture, etc. Would you ask anyone you love to be born in the 13th century during a plague outbreak when they also had to deal with domestic violence, political violence, famine, illiteracy, spousal rape? If not, why would you care what a ‘god’ who does wants from you? Also before modern times childhood mortality rates were much higher. So billions of people who have been born ended up dying before they were 6. If we are here to learn lessons or grow spiritually that is a total waste of time/effort to create billions of lives just to end them before they are old enough to have brains capable of learning lessons. Assuming 100 billion people have lived on earth, and assuming that 85% of them were born before germ theory became popular in their country, you can probably assume that about half of those 85 billion died as children. So if god wants us to ‘learn lessons’, he is grossly inefficient as almost half of all people die before they are mature enough to learn anything. Historically I’d guess 30-40 billion humans of the 108 billion who ever existed died as children. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/46 "2015-03-04T22:36:14Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > My understanding is that God desires reconciliation and relationship with humankind not out of unsatisfied ego, but out of love. God doesn’t _need_ our worship (or anything else from us) but God desires for us what we were created for - to exist with him in love. Wait, why “with him”? Love’s love. If I am in love with my significant other, or I love my family and friends, surely I’m not “missing” anything by not also loving God. Nor he I. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/47 "2015-03-04T23:06:54Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Because life is full of suffering, misery, ignorance and pain. Life is also full of of happiness, joy, learning, and growth. > [@](#): > > Also before modern times childhood mortality rates were much higher. So billions of people who have been born ended up dying before they were 6. If we are here to learn lessons or grow spiritually that is a total waste of time/effort to create billions of lives just to end them before they are old enough to have brains capable of learning lessons. I think that most parents who had a child die at age 6 (or 5, 4, 3, &c…) would not be agreeable to the statement that raising that child was a “waste of time”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/48 "2015-03-04T23:12:02Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I think that most parents who had a child die at age 6 (or 5, 4, 3, &c…) would not be agreeable to the statement that raising that child was a “waste of time”. Good thing he wasn’t talking about the kid’s parents, then, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![SeekerofTruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@SeekerofTruth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeekerofTruth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/49 "2015-03-04T23:12:49Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Really? When did Christianity define God this way? “God sent his only Begotten Son as a sacrifice to save men from their sin. If you do not believe in me you will perish in your sins.” I’d say this creed dates from the writing of John circa 100- 120 AD. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Christians believed that Christ’s death on the cross lead to the atonement for sins before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. The idea is clearly present, and at the center, of Paul’s letters, which were written before that date. Not exactly. Read my earlier post. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Perhaps if you don’t want to continually be posting untrue statements and having them debunked, you should stop blindly believing everything that Richard Carrier tells you and start reading some books and articles by real Bible scholars instead. I think we had this conversation the last thread. Translation: “If you want to avoid being attacked my me just start posting things that line up with my own set of preconceived notions about Christianity.” > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > More wrong statements on your part. First of all, \*\*no epistles is a “proven forgery”. \*\*It has been suggested that some epistles are pseudepigraphic, and some scholars find it likely; other don’t. But there is no proof that the claim is true regarding any of the Pauline epistles. Sex of one half of another. pseudepigraphic is just a twenty-dollar word or forgery. > [@](#): > > pseud·e·pig·ra·pha > (so͞o′dĭ-pĭg′rə-fə) > pl.n. > > 1. Spurious writings, especially writings falsely attributed to biblical characters or times. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > There are seven epistles entirely agreed to have been written by Paul (Romans, I and 2 Corinthians, 1 Thessalonians, Galatians, Phillipians, and Philemon). No serious scholar disputes that these were written before 70 AD, since Paul died before that date. So what would you call the other six? pseudepigraphic, I suppose–which is like calling a whore a “lady of the night”. Lipstick on a pig. ---
**Author:** ![SeekerofTruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@SeekerofTruth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeekerofTruth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/50 "2015-03-04T23:18:02Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Because life is full of suffering, misery, ignorance and pain. Any god who would ask/tell us to come here is evil and deserves to be ignored at best and destroyed/incarcerated at worst. > > Keep in mind that life still kind of sucks for a lot of people, and that is after hundreds of years of trying to make life better via medicine, science, technology, political reform, social reform, individual rights, etc. Imagine how bad it sucked in the 12th century when people had no medicine, no civil rights, no political rights, no laws against domestic violence, torture, etc. > > Would you ask anyone you love to be born in the 13th century during a plague outbreak when they also had to deal with domestic violence, political violence, famine, illiteracy, spousal rape? If not, why would you care what a ‘god’ who does wants from you? > > Also before modern times childhood mortality rates were much higher. So billions of people who have been born ended up dying before they were 6. If we are here to learn lessons or grow spiritually that is a total waste of time/effort to create billions of lives just to end them before they are old enough to have brains capable of learning lessons. > > Assuming 100 billion people have lived on earth, and assuming that 85% of them were born before germ theory became popular in their country, you can probably assume that about half of those 85 billion died as children. So if god wants us to ‘learn lessons’, he is grossly inefficient as almost half of all people die before they are mature enough to learn anything. Historically I’d guess 30-40 billion humans of the 108 billion who ever existed died as children. But that’s where the natural laws come into play. God doesn’t answer prayer. He doesn’t intervene in the order of things, except maybe to keep a comet from striking the earth and obliterating it. If natural laws govern everything, then massive numbers of children die horribly, disease runs rampant, Christian die in accidents or horribly with the same frequency as atheists and Hindus. No religion has a monopoly on anything. If anything Christians have a monopoly on divorce, neurosis, psychosis, lying, fraud, and a whole bunch of other undesirable qualities simply because they use Christianity as a mask to hide their evil natures. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/51 "2015-03-04T23:19:35Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Because life is full of suffering, misery, ignorance and pain. Any god who would ask/tell us to come here is evil and deserves to be ignored at best and destroyed/incarcerated at worst. The OP posits, that suffering has the purpose of “to start a growing process spiritually that is just the first step in an eternity-long program to grow towards Oneness with God”. In that kind of vast scheme of thing, the suffering of an being for a few years in one lifetime would not, I would think, be a big deal in eternity. If suffering is helpful in somehow growing as an eternal being then the one life is but a drop of sand in an eternity. In that case, the suffering doesn’t have to be the work of some kind of rabid masochist, but rather short term pain serving a long term goal. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/52 "2015-03-04T23:24:44Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > The OP posits, that suffering has the purpose of “to start a growing process spiritually that is just the first step in an eternity-long program to grow towards Oneness with God”. In that kind of vast scheme of thing, the suffering of an being for a few years in one lifetime would not, I would think, be a big deal in eternity. If suffering is helpful in somehow growing as an eternal being then the one life is but a drop of sand in an eternity. In that case, the suffering doesn’t have to be the work of some kind of rabid masochist, but rather short term pain serving a long term goal. But if that suffering is necessary, doesn’t that imply a limitation on God’s abilities? If God is all-powerful, he should be able to start us on that path to spiritual growth in a non-traumatic manner. That he doesn’t, suggest he’s either not quite all he’s cracked up to be, or he simply doesn’t care what (or who) he has to break to get the results he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/53 "2015-03-04T23:36:57Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > I’d argue with the phrase, “well before”. When would you place it–something like 40-45 AD to prove your point. It is obvious the writer of Mark knew the temple was in trouble because of the Romans. So the earliest Mark could be written is 67 CO when it became obvious the romans were going to destroy Jerusalem. The idea that this is prophecy from Jesus from 40 years earlier is simply ludicrous. **Skammer** has already amended Mark to no later than 60’s in post 24, so probably best to let this go, although I would quibble that that would be the very earliest date of it, not latest. I would also add, nobody has the slightest inkling of what was in the Gospel of Mark at that time either. The late great ex-Catholic priest, Joseph McCabe says this: > [@](#): > > Moreover, the resurrection story and other details are not supposed, and cannot be proved by anybody, to have been in Mark by the year 70. Scholars have come to the conclusion that there existed at first a simple sketch of Gospels (and is best seen in Mark) and a collection of teachings which is most used my Matthew. At what date the sketch was written nobody knows. What precisely was in it nobody knows. You cannot put your finger on a single verse and say that it is part of the original Gospel. And, even if you could, there is not a scrap of evidence that it was written within thirty years of the death of Christ. (source: Did Jesus Ever Live? --Joseph McCabe) ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/54 "2015-03-04T23:45:42Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > My understanding is that God desires reconciliation and relationship with humankind not out of unsatisfied ego, but out of love. God doesn’t _need_ our worship (or anything else from us) but God desires for us what we were created for - to exist with him in love. Worship and adoration is a natural (and inevitable) outcome of our knowing God. I strongly disagree. I can see adoration sure but I don’t do worship. I would not want to be worshiped. I’m uncomfortable with this concept and I’m sure in this that I am not unique. If I met God I would surely feel awe and admiration. I may strive to grow more Godlike ( if deserved ) but any worship going on would have to be coerced. > [@](#): > > God’s not a tyrant who demands obedience under threat of punishment but a loving parent who eagerly awaits reconciliation with a rebellious child. I would ask Lot’s wife her opinion of this but I have high blood pressure so I better not. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/55 "2015-03-04T23:57:12Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > The OP posits, that suffering has the purpose of “to start a growing process spiritually that is just the first step in an eternity-long program to grow towards Oneness with God”. In that kind of vast scheme of thing, the suffering of an being for a few years in one lifetime would not, I would think, be a big deal in eternity. It is a big deal for the being that suffers. The fact that some distant grand-nephew in 50, 000 years will receive some form of reward isn’t any sort of compensation to the woman who was kidnapped, mutilated, raped and left to die of infection form from her severed leg. This God remains a psychopath. All you’ve done is added an “end justifies the means” clause to his psychopathy. You can’t justify torturing hundreds of billions of people so that the a few billion people millennia later get some sort of benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/56 "2015-03-05T00:02:16Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > The OP posits, that suffering has the purpose of “to start a growing process spiritually that is just the first step in an eternity-long program to grow towards Oneness with God”. In that kind of vast scheme of thing, the suffering of an being for a few years in one lifetime would not, I would think, be a big deal in eternity. If suffering is helpful in somehow growing as an eternal being then the one life is but a drop of sand in an eternity. In that case, the suffering doesn’t have to be the work of some kind of rabid masochist, but rather short term pain serving a long term goal. That is like telling a rape victim to stop whining, its not that big a deal. Understanding of and respect for another’s perspective and needs is a necessary part of mature love (without that ‘love’ is more of an empty smothering sensation, see all the parents who only care about what they want from their kids, not what their kids want and ask their kids about it). Why would anyone desire oneness with a deity who acts or believes like that? Plus if this deity is willing to demand suffering, terror, misery, ignorance, etc. in the achievement of its goals where does it end? Can you say the deity will stop caring about your internal experience once oneness is achieved? Maybe it will demand/be indifferent to new forms of torture and torment. If you believe the ends justify the means in one situation, that mentality will likely bleed into other situations. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/57 "2015-03-05T00:04:49Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > But that’s where the natural laws come into play. God doesn’t answer prayer. He doesn’t intervene in the order of things, except maybe to keep a comet from striking the earth and obliterating it. If natural laws govern everything, then massive numbers of children die horribly, disease runs rampant, Christian die in accidents or horribly with the same frequency as atheists and Hindus. No religion has a monopoly on anything. If anything Christians have a monopoly on divorce, neurosis, psychosis, lying, fraud, and a whole bunch of other undesirable qualities simply because they use Christianity as a mask to hide their evil natures. There have been many mass extinctions on this planet. I doubt god intervenes to stop them from happening. What you describe sounds like deism. Evenso, if a deity created these natural laws it has no concern for suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/58 "2015-03-05T00:11:27Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Life is also full of of happiness, joy, learning, and growth. We are living 250 years after the start of the industrial revolution, 150 years after the start of western medicine. That is easy to say that life is full of happiness, joy, learning and growth now (which it is for many people, but for many it still isn’t). The last 250 years have been a period of continuous, compounding improvements in science, medicine, technology, human rights, agriculture, liberty, etc. For the vast majority of human history people were illiterate and sick. Human/civil rights are a recent creation. According to Steven Pinker rates of violence are something like 90-98% lower than they were a thousand+ years ago. By historical human standards, we are literally living in an ivory tower. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I think that most parents who had a child die at age 6 (or 5, 4, 3, &c…) would not be agreeable to the statement that raising that child was a “waste of time”. My point was that if the purpose of life was to ‘learn lessons and grow’, then considering how almost half of all human beings who have ever lived in the last 200,000 years died before they were 10 (and were not mentally mature enough to start learning lessons) it is a very shoddily run system. Life expectancy at birth in pre-historic time was something like 25 years. About half of people died young. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/59 "2015-03-05T00:39:19Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > There is a God out there guiding all this; I think just the fact that there have been no human extinction events that have occurred while man has been on earth helps to confirm this. So your confirming evidence is the absence of an event that, had it occurred, would have rendered you incapable of observing it? Are you not familiar with the logical absurdity of such anthropic reasoning? > [@](#): > > There has to be something to explain how we got here. “It just happened” just doesn’t cut it to any rational-thinking individual unless they think they can keep tossing the parts of a model airplane into the air and assume that eventually it will fall assembled. Do you accept that if just toss some salt water into a bowl, salt crystals will grow? Many things in this universe result in complex structures “just happening”. It just doesn’t cut it that any rational-thinking individual would deny that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/60 "2015-03-05T00:47:19Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > So your confirming evidence is the absence of an event that, had it occurred, would have rendered you incapable of observing it? > > Are you not familiar with the logical absurdity of such anthropic reasoning? Yeah, that was a pretty impressive logic fail. It’s worth noting that the dinosaurs could have made exactly the same claim at any point in the 135 million years they lived on this planet, right up to the moment the Chicxulub Crater formed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186.md?page=4)