# Is God Really THAT Full of Himself?? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 4, 2015, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186 "2015-03-04T07:43:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/121 "2015-03-06T03:14:30Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > Remember, the evidence includes people who were able to say with precise detail what was going on in the OR and who was saying what to who while these people were clinically dead. That in itself is proof enough that something beyond the natural is going on here. All of which, even if it were true (which it is not) has nothing whatsoever to do with proving god exists, or the origin of the universe, life, speciation, or anything we’ve been talking about here. A dying brain experiences hallucinations, that’s the sum of it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/122 "2015-03-06T04:34:50Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > . . . A dying brain experiences hallucinations, that’s the sum of it. Exactly. The people who have had near-death experiences were not “clinically dead.” They were “near death.” Their brains were running short on oxygen, but their brains had not flatlined. It may be some day that flatlined brains can be resuscitated – as in one Star Trek episode. But not today. The cessation of brain-wave activity has never been observed to be reversed. ---
**Author:** ![SeekerofTruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@SeekerofTruth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeekerofTruth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/123 "2015-03-06T06:47:55Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > It’s rather remarkable how many of your factual claims turn out to be wrong and how few turn out the be right. It’s a good feeling, isn’t it? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SeekerofTruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@SeekerofTruth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeekerofTruth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/124 "2015-03-06T07:06:01Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > “Maybe so” necessitates “maybe not” too. Since there’s absolutely no need to posit a god in this process, why do it? It adds nothing to the narrative except an unnecessary and inexplicable complication. > In fact you have a need to \*not \*speculate on who made him, because if you did your belief system would fall to the ground. > > No-one here has called the god hypothesis simplistic (which means “overly simple”). Quite the opposite - it is one step too complex. How can you fail to grasp this? You are positing an unnecessary entity. > > None of this has anything to do with how abiogenesis or evolution works. Really, nothing. You are making a fool out of yourself here, like Clint Eastwood arguing with an empty chair. No-one holds the position you are arguing against. No-one thinks watches appear self-assembled, and most especially no-one thinks that “all this sprung up out of nothing” - except you, who thinks your god did so. Please please please read the book you’ve been recommended; you cannot argue usefully against evolution until you understand it. You are just wasting your time posting this specious nonsense, with which you will - quite literally - convince no-one. > **kanicbird**? Is that you? Askance, you’re not getting with the program here at all. Here’s the simple truth. I’m not here to convert any of you or even convince you of what I believe. All of us here are so firmly fixed in our beliefs that no one, not even God Himself coming down from heaven, could convince us to think otherwise. I’ve been at this too long to think I can influence you to come around to my way of thinking. That’s why I don’t write long treatises when someone says, “Prove that to me” or “You’re just making a fool of yourself”. It washes right off my back and onto the ground. My job here is to throw out some unconventional ideas that might cause a few lurkers to think about what I said and do some research on the Internet to see if what I’ve said is justified. As I said before I’ve NEVER said anything in a deliberate attempt to deceive. That’s kids stuff and a waste of my time and yours. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to call me out on what I say and if proof is handy I will try to substantiate my claims. If it’s not handy, I won’t. Simple as that. But I certainly am NOT going to go hunting for hours to substantiate a statement like “ **birds can fly** ” just because you or someone else says, “Prove it.” The truth of the matter is you know that birds can fly and you don’t need me doing hours of research to dig it up. But I do know of people who deliberately attempt to sent commentators on fact-finding missions that last for days and then expect a book-length treatise on what they found just to get the satisfaction they got the poor sucker to go on a wild goose chase that in the final analysis wouldn’t turn their opinion a degree one way or the other. Prove birds can fly? That’s for the birds, don’t ya know. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/125 "2015-03-06T10:16:26Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > My job here is to throw out some unconventional ideas Your ideas aren’t unconventional, they’re unsubstantiated. > [@](#): > > Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to call me out on what I say Which is being done > [@](#): > > and if proof is handy I will try to substantiate my claims. Good, that’s what we are here for. Debate. > [@](#): > > But I certainly am NOT going to go hunting…bla bla… “ **birds can fly** ” > yadda… yadda. What a pity, so no debate then…and you are not willing to learn anything. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/126 "2015-03-06T11:13:46Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > I’m not here to convert any of you or even convince you of what I believe. > . . . > > My job here is to throw out some unconventional ideas that might cause a few lurkers to think about what I said and do some research on the Internet to see if what I’ve said is justified. So, you are not here to persuade others of your views. Off to **IMHO** where you do not need to support your beliefs. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/127 "2015-03-06T11:28:12Z")
There’s plenty about the Bible that I don’t understand, but, I do know for a personal fact that Jesus is real and, to my way of thinking, the Bible by extension is loaded up with spiritual/mystical truth. As far as the worshipping thing goes, Methinks people are inherently beings that love to worship. Just look at how so many people get jacked up about their favorite football teams. Also, Satan is a real and formidable being and he wants to be worshipped and so, kinda like the Bible says, the goats and the sheep are being separated and we’ll all go to our most favorite God to spend eternity when the dust settles. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/128 "2015-03-06T11:47:48Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > Several have asked, “If not the universe, then why not God?” type of questions. I’ll address that. > > It works the opposite, “if people can believe the universe spontaneously arose, then why can’t they believe God did too?” But evolutionists/atheists want to have it both ways. They want to say “The universe is fully capable of popping into existence all on its own, thank you” but they refuse to entertain the notion that if the universe could, then maybe so could God. Maybe you need to research Occam’s Razor rather than NDEs ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/129 "2015-03-06T12:42:57Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > … > > **kanicbird**? Is that you? No, I don’t wear socks when I’m dopin’ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/130 "2015-03-06T12:47:44Z")
> [@Dibbs](#): > > There’s plenty about the Bible that I don’t understand, but, I do know for a personal fact that Jesus is real and, to my way of thinking, the Bible by extension is loaded up with spiritual/mystical truth. As far as the worshipping thing goes, Methinks people are inherently beings that love to worship. Just look at how so many people get jacked up about their favorite football teams. Also, Satan is a real and formidable being and he wants to be worshipped and so, kinda like the Bible says, the goats and the sheep are being separated and we’ll all go to our most favorite God to spend eternity when the dust settles. You must forgive us if we don’t give much credence to your personal revelation. What’s glaringly true for you may not pass the scrutiny of science, nor be part of someone else’s “revelation.” As far as I am concerned, Jesus, Satan and “spiritual/mystical truth” exist only in your mind, and I won’t be taking only your word for it. > [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > Remember, the evidence includes people who were able to say with precise detail what was going on in the OR and who was saying what to who while these people were clinically dead. That in itself is proof enough that something beyond the natural is going on here. Although it’s “common knowledge” in woo-woo circles, no such event – if you’re talking about floating above the table or meeting Jesus – has ever withstood the bright light of scientific proof. So far, it falls squarely in the realm of misunderstanding, conjecture, tall tales, magic tricks, and wishful thinking. Or possibly a redefinition of “dead.” > [@Voyager](#): > > To be fair nothing that he has said makes him seem like a Creationist by any reasonable definition. Theistic evolution yes. First cause, yes. Tomayto, tomahto. > [@Askance](#): > > “Maybe so” necessitates “maybe not” too. Since there’s absolutely no need to posit a god in this process, why do it? It adds nothing to the narrative except an unnecessary and inexplicable complication. As [Pierre LaPlace](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Simon_Laplace) so eloquently put it, “I have no need of that hypothesis.” ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/131 "2015-03-06T14:29:46Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > I have nothing but contempt for the Bible as a holy book; for Christians who try to pass it off as the holy word of God to the exclusion of everything else; for the ridiculous idea that God cannot forgive sins even when He wants to because He’s bound by some moronic moral code that would stain His honor if He simply forgave people their sins instead of all this hokum of having to make a blood sacrifice out of Son in order to permit Him to forgive sins if people will accept His Son as Savior. Are you aware that your complaint is with Christian theology only, and that most of the Bible does not propound that viewpoint? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/132 "2015-03-06T15:50:49Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > All of us here are so firmly fixed in our beliefs that no one, not even God Himself coming down from heaven, could convince us to think otherwise. You are making assumptions about people you don’t know. Believe it or not, some of us _are_ here to learn with open minds. Perhaps your mind is indeed closed, but don’t make the mistake of imputing your own shortcomings upon me. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/133 "2015-03-06T20:43:11Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > {…} It works the opposite, “if people can believe the universe spontaneously arose, then why can’t they believe God did too?” But evolutionists/atheists want to have it both ways. They want to say “The universe is fully capable of popping into existence all on its own, thank you” but they refuse to entertain the notion that if the universe could, then maybe so could God. {…} The evidence for the Universe, abundant. The evidence for (G)god(s), non-existent. > [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > {…} I always fall back on the watch on a beach metaphor because it’s easier to think someone invented the watch than to think the watch evolved by itself. And then I think of the PowerBall metaphor. Sure, if you want to believe it’s perfect possible for a 20 YO to win the Powerball every week for the next 3,120 weeks of his life right in a row–not likely but possible, then I have to respect your belief in such supernatural events. For me it takes less faith to believe in God than it takes to believe all this sprung up out of nothing. {…} No, please, not the Watchmaker! What’s next, your self discovered version of Pascal’s Wager? (There’s a whole Interweb full of explanations of just how bad those arguments really are, look them up!) What are the odds of winning the Powerball if the number is drawn millions, maybe hundreds or thousands of millions, of times each day? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/134 "2015-03-06T21:19:16Z")
“You must forgive us if we don’t give much credence to your personal revelation.” Musicat, have you been appointed to speak for others? Also, I was merely giving my opinions based on some mystical experiences, never said a word about you or science needing to validate my views. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/135 "2015-03-28T04:12:21Z")
> [@SeekerofTruth](#): > > “God sent his only Begotten Son as a sacrifice to save men from their sin. If you do not believe in me you will perish in your sins.” I’d say this creed dates from the writing of John circa 100- 120 AD. > > Not exactly. Read my earlier post. > > I think we had this conversation the last thread. Translation: “If you want to avoid being attacked my me just start posting things that line up with my own set of preconceived notions about Christianity.” > > Sex of one half of another. pseudepigraphic is just a twenty-dollar word or forgery. > > So what would you call the other six? pseudepigraphic, I suppose–which is like calling a whore a “lady of the night”. Lipstick on a pig. This brings to my mind That Jesus was quoted as telling the woman who asked him to heal her child,"I came only for the lost sheep of Israel he id heal the child, but it indicates that it was not his purpose to save the entire world but just the lost sheep of Israel; Just as a human may stop along the way to help some one in need he may help them ,but that was not the reason or purpose for being on the road at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186/136 "2015-03-28T13:13:04Z")
> [@Dibbs](#): > > “You must forgive us if we don’t give much credence to your personal revelation.” > > Musicat, have you been appointed to speak for others? Also, I was merely giving my opinions based on some mystical experiences, never said a word about you or science needing to validate my views. Appointed? Get real. But it’s a common stance among non-believers of supernatural phenomena. We don’t instantly believe every crazy story without evidence, no matter how sincere you may be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-god-really-that-full-of-himself/714186.md?page=6)