# Is GOP trying to sabotage economy to hurt Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924 "2012-05-24T07:03:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/21 "2012-05-24T15:03:03Z")
I’m pretty darned certain of it. While I’d strongly prefer to not see Romney get elected, if he does, and if the economy doesn’t magically improve in the ways in which he’s promising, I really want to see the rationalizations that conservatives come up with to explain why. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/22 "2012-05-24T15:14:56Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > While I’d strongly prefer to not see Romney get elected, if he does, and if the economy doesn’t magically improve in the ways in which he’s promising, I really want to see the rationalizations that conservatives come up with to explain why. Well, if he’s elected, I’m sure it’ll suddenly become unfashionable and unpatriotic to question the president, again. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/23 "2012-05-24T15:18:37Z")
This is just an exercise in incredible arrogance. No one knows how to get out of recessions or there would be no such thing as prolonged recessions. The Democrat party has one idea about how to get out of it and the GOP has another idea. Both parties are pursuing their best ideas about how to get out of the recession. If Obama knew exactly what was needed to get out of the recession he would have done it during the time his party had control of both houses of Congress. During that time they passed huge increases in spending and borrowing. Three years later we are still in a weak economy. Remember this is a world wide recession. Most of Europe has responded to the recession by increasing taxes on the wealthy, while maintaining spending. This has not worked. Countries that have lowered taxes and restrained spending such as Germany, Sweden, and Canada are doing better. Yet Obama is ignoring this evidence and pushing for higher taxes and more borrowing. The GOP sees the amount of debt the government is accumulating and looks around at the wrecks of countries that refuse to get their debts under control such as Japan, Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Italy. They see the car is out of control and are frantically trying to step on the brakes before we go over the cliff. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/24 "2012-05-24T15:20:18Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > This is just an exercise in incredible arrogance. No one knows how to get out of recessions or there would be no such thing as prolonged recessions. The Democrat party has one idea about how to get out of it and the GOP has another idea. Both parties are pursuing their best ideas about how to get out of the recession. If Obama knew exactly what was needed to get out of the recession he would have done it during the time his party had control of both houses of Congress. During that time they passed huge increases in spending and borrowing. Three years later we are still in a weak economy. > Remember this is a world wide recession. Most of Europe has responded to the recession by increasing taxes on the wealthy, while maintaining spending. This has not worked. Countries that have lowered taxes and restrained spending such as Germany, Sweden, and Canada are doing better. Yet Obama is ignoring this evidence and pushing for higher taxes and more borrowing. > The GOP sees the amount of debt the government is accumulating and looks around at the wrecks of countries that refuse to get their debts under control such as Japan, Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Italy. They see the car is out of control and are frantically trying to step on the brakes before we go over the cliff. See post #4, and try to address the question, o.k.? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/25 "2012-05-24T15:50:57Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I’m pretty darned certain of it. > > While I’d strongly prefer to not see Romney get elected, if he does, and if the economy doesn’t magically improve in the ways in which he’s promising, I really want to see the rationalizations that conservatives come up with to explain why. You’ll probably see threads titled something like “Is the Democratic Party trying to sabotage the economy to hurt Romney?” And in response to claims that the Dems are actually trying to fix things, it’ll have posts about how Democratic efforts to pass legislation don’t count because they know full well they’d stall or fail in the other chamber. Then those same posts would claim something like “This thread isn’t about how _my_ side is fucking things up.”, i.e. the thread is only about agreeing with the OP and this board’s bias, not disagreeing. > [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Don’t be twee. I’d say the same thing if the Dems were pushing bills that they _knew full well would stall or fail_. The nation is pretty evenly split politically speaking and that means compromise is necessary from _both_ sides for things to be done. The Left has plenty to answer for, but this thread isn’t about that. If you want to start one I’ll go there and complain about them as well. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/26 "2012-05-24T15:54:28Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > This is just an exercise in incredible arrogance. No one knows how to get out of recessions or there would be no such thing as prolonged recessions. We have a pretty good idea. And it doesn’t involve cutting government spending during a recession. The reason we don’t just get out of all prolonged recessions, is that ignorant people get riled up by people who scream about the budgets. > [@](#): > > The Democrat party has one idea about how to get out of it and the GOP has another idea. Both parties are pursuing their best ideas about how to get out of the recession. It’s the Democratic party by the way. The GOP wants to cut spending, not because it will improve the economy, but because it is a way to attack programs they hate. > [@](#): > > If Obama knew exactly what was needed to get out of the recession he would have done it during the time his party had control of both houses of Congress. You are misinformed. Obama had 60 votes for a couple of weeks. And some of those votes were very conservative Democrats. So he didn’t have carte blanche to do what he wanted. > [@](#): > > During that time they passed huge increases in spending and borrowing. Three years later we are still in a weak economy. Are you talking about the stimulus? Because it certainly worked. > [@](#): > > Remember this is a world wide recession. Most of Europe has responded to the recession by increasing taxes on the wealthy, while maintaining spending. Has it now? I’m pretty certain that you have that exactly backwards. > [@](#): > > This has not worked. Countries that have lowered taxes and restrained spending such as Germany, Sweden, and Canada are doing better. Yet Obama is ignoring this evidence and pushing for higher taxes and more borrowing. > The GOP sees the amount of debt the government is accumulating and looks around at the wrecks of countries that refuse to get their debts under control such as Japan, Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Italy. They see the car is out of control and are frantically trying to step on the brakes before we go over the cliff. Hyperbolic nonsense. Our debt problem is like being obese. Yes, it’s bad, and it will eventually kill you. But right now, we’ve got a bleeding belly wound. And it needs spending to fix. You’re advocating a diet plan to fix a belly wound. Yeah, all bleeding stops eventually, but some times it’s not for the patient’s best interest. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/27 "2012-05-24T15:54:54Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I’m pretty darned certain of it. > > While I’d strongly prefer to not see Romney get elected, if he does, and if the economy doesn’t magically improve in the ways in which he’s promising, I really want to see the rationalizations that conservatives come up with to explain why. [YOu know, Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter.](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney#On_the_economy) A 180 degree spin would prove to be no problem at all. In politics, it’s just a dance move. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/28 "2012-05-24T15:58:10Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I guess the debate is as follows: > > 1. Is the GOP actively sabotaging the economy? Will they do anything - even if it hurts America and their constituants - to have Obama lose the White House? > > 2. If not, how can we explain everything they have said and done to date? > > 3. If so, how can we stop them? 1. Yes, they are actively sabotaging the economy. But I think it’s gone beyond trying to defeat Obama; whether or not he gets re-elected, they’ll still be trying to crash the economy next year. They basically don’t believe in government. They want to cut it (except for the military) as much as possible, from Medicare on down. Even if they believed this would hurt the economy as much as economists say it will, they would want it to be done anyway. This is not your father’s GOP; it’s not even the GOP of five years ago. They are the barbarians at the gate. Given power, they will make the Bush Administration look like a golden age by comparison. 1. Re-elect Obama. Elect more, better Democrats to Congress and to governorships and state legislatures across the country. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/29 "2012-05-24T16:00:32Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > You’ll probably see threads titled something like “Is the Democratic Party trying to sabotage the economy to hurt Romney?” And in response to claims that the Dems are actually trying to fix things, it’ll have posts about how Democratic efforts to pass legislation don’t count because they know full well they’d stall or fail in the other chamber. One reason you won’t see those threads is that the Republicans would stop screaming socialism about all their old policy positions and would then accept them. > [@](#): > > Then those same posts would claim something like “This thread isn’t about how _my_ side is fucking things up.”, i.e. the thread is only about agreeing with the OP and this board’s bias, not disagreeing. Not everything in the world is equal. Both sides of every issue isn’t equal. Pro Evolution and pro creationism are equal contenders. And right now, in the early 21st century the GOP has embraced outright nonsense and histrionic outrage. Not all conservatives are like that, certainly. But it doesn’t matter if they vote for people who are. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/30 "2012-05-24T16:01:02Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > This is not your father’s GOP; it’s not even the GOP of five years ago. They are the barbarians at the gate. Given power, they will make the Bush Administration look like a golden age by comparison. > > 1. Re-elect Obama. Elect more, better Democrats to Congress and to governorships and state legislatures across the country. :):):):):):):):):):):):)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/31 "2012-05-24T16:19:03Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > 1. Re-elect Obama. Elect more, better Democrats to Congress and to governorships and state legislatures across the country. After this Obama can blame the fewer Republicans that Obama’s tax and spend policies have not worked. Or they can blame the few conservative democrats they haven’t driven out. Anything to avoid looking in the mirror and taking responsibility. This has been a fun four years, from Hope and Change to “It was like that when I got here” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/32 "2012-05-24T16:23:54Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > After this Obama can blame the fewer Republicans that Obama’s tax and spend policies have not worked. Spending is flat and he hasn’t raised taxes. Do you care if your catchprases are true or not? > [@](#): > > Or they can blame the few conservative democrats they haven’t driven out. Anything to avoid looking in the mirror and taking responsibility. The country is far, far better now than when Obama took over. And that’s with the GOP fighting him and filibustering every step of the way. > [@](#): > > This has been a fun four years, from Hope and Change to “It was like that when I got here” See previous comment. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/33 "2012-05-24T16:45:09Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > After this Obama can blame the fewer Republicans that Obama’s tax and spend policies have not worked. Or they can blame the few conservative democrats they haven’t driven out. Anything to avoid looking in the mirror and taking responsibility. > This has been a fun four years, from Hope and Change to “It was like that when I got here” Once again, what do these bumpersticker platitudes have to do with the topic at hand? In case there is something wrong with your browser and you are incapable of scrolling to the top of the page, let me repost it for your clarification: _Is GOP trying to sabotage economy to hurt Obama?_ Yes, or no? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/34 "2012-05-24T16:48:02Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Spending is flat and he hasn’t raised taxes. Do you care if your catchprases are true or not? > > The country is far, far better now than when Obama took over. And that’s with the GOP fighting him and filibustering every step of the way. Total federal spending in 2008 was 3 trillion dollars, this year’s spending is projected to be 3.8 trillion dollars. 800 billion dollars more spending is hardly what I would call flat. If more democrats were elected as talked about in the hypothetical, taxes would definetly go up. Just think how much better things would be if the GOP was better at fighting and filibustering every step of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/35 "2012-05-24T16:49:43Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Total federal spending in 2008 was 3 trillion dollars, this year’s spending is projected to be 3.8 trillion dollars. 800 billion dollars more spending is hardly what I would call flat. If more democrats were elected as talked about in the hypothetical, taxes would definetly go up. > > Just think how much better things would be if the GOP was better at fighting and filibustering every step of the way. What does this have to do with the thread topic? ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/36 "2012-05-24T16:49:51Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If Obama knew exactly what was needed to get out of the recession he would have done it during the time **his party had control of both houses of Congress.** I am so tired of this angle, repeated over and over by Republicans. Yes, the Democrats had a numerical majority in the Senate after the 2008 elections (57-41, with 2 independents who usually caucused with the Democrats for a total of 59), but they didn’t have a **functional** majority. When the Senate is so at odds and the parties so oppositional, the rules that allow a minority of 41 Senators to stop anything from advancing on the floor means 59 isn’t a majority. You realize one of the huge issues surrounding the debate on the Affordable Health Care Act was to craft enticements to convince a couple of more moderate Republican Senators to climb on board? Otherwise, 59 Democratic votes isn’t enough to pass diddly-squat. Stop. Just stop with this ridiculous mantra of “Obama and the Democrats ran Congress for two years, why didn’t they fix everything then?” It’s simply not true. And in answer to the OP: Yes, I believe it is true. Maybe not actively sabotaging things, but by stalling and inaction, the Republicans are doing everything they can to make the economy look worse (or at least not improve very much) in order to hamper Obama’s chances at reelection. It actually seems obvious to me, and I’m hard-pressed to see why anyone would deny it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/37 "2012-05-24T17:16:48Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > After this Obama can blame the fewer Republicans that Obama’s tax and spend policies have not worked. But they have worked. Taxes are lower, economic growth is higher and fewer people are unemployed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/38 "2012-05-24T17:25:52Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > But they have worked. Taxes are lower, economic growth is higher and fewer people are unemployed. Fewer people are unemployed? From what date to what date? ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/39 "2012-05-24T17:28:50Z")
To answer the OP. Yes I think so Additionally, I believe the Democrats did the same thing in Bushs last 2 years. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924/40 "2012-05-24T17:29:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Fewer people are unemployed? From what date to what date? OK, that was imprecise. The rate of unemployment is lower. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gop-trying-to-sabotage-economy-to-hurt-obama/622924.md?page=3)