# Is grade inflation really that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577 "2004-05-05T02:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577/41 "2004-05-18T00:40:08Z")
Why should schools grade on a scale relative to the rest of the class? It forces the classes into an artificial normal scale. You could have an exceptionally bright or exceptionally dumb class, and both classes will be represented as being equally skilled on the average, when that’s not the case. Rather than grading relative to the class, teachers should make better tests that really get to the heart of the material (regardless of what school they teach for.) If you know 90% of the **important** material, then you should you get an A or B+ regardless of the rest of the class. The one exception to this might be that sometimes teachers make such absurdly hard tests that no one in the class does well, and then the curving might be justified for the students’ sake. But really those tests aren’t very meaningful when it comes to whether or not the students have actually learned the material. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577/42 "2004-05-18T02:11:09Z")
What all professors know: curves are made by profs who don’t know how to test. There is no reason for the “best” student in an undergraduate or even worse a graduate course to get a 30%. This is either due to the arrogance of the faculty member (I’m smarter than you are) or piss poor test preparation. You can’t get a true statistical “curve” based on a single data point (one class). If you are going to curve (statistically manipulate your test results) you have to do it over a statistically reasonable group. I firmly believe that there are significant elements in every course that must be mastered by each student in order to procede to the next level of courses. If you master those elements you may pass on no matter what your classmates do. You should be graded on your mastery of the essential elements not your relative results based on the doofus or genius sitting next to you. I.E. you should not get an A because the guy/gal next to you can’t add two plus two and get the same answer twice. Neither should you get an F because Richard Feinman is the student across the aisle. ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577/43 "2004-05-18T06:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Kel, I’m afraid I’m going to have to disagree with your detective work on this one. There is an explanation for why a 42% should be a B+, and it doesn’t imply incompetence in any direction. I don’t think there are many undergrad courses that a 42% is a B+ grade. Also, if you go back and read jeevmon’s post you will see that he/she said he/she was able to receive at least a B for the course without having a clue or any true understandng of the material. > [@](#): > > But the mandated curve ensured that even people who had no freaking clue (like yours truly) could escape with at least a B, because I understood the material 10% better than the bulk of the class. It was stupid, since I clearly didn’t understand the material at all. Still think there wasn’t any incompetence? ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577/44 "2004-05-18T19:44:58Z")
I was mostly replying to your statement that “[t]here is **no way** a 42% should equal a B+ in an undergrad chemistry course.” There are many ways, and I don’t think that a student’s colored perspective from the class is 100% reliable. In this particular case, it sounds like something went wrong, but I still don’t think it’s necessarily “incompetence.” It could be that it really is true that skimming the handouts from class is enough to get the required information. (Chemicals for Stoners?) Furthermore, there was a fair amount of hyperbole in **jeevmon** ’s post and I tried to make it clear that I don’t think that scoring 42% on a test implies that you don’t know anything, which proposition **jeevmon** does appear to accept. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577/45 "2004-05-18T22:19:13Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I would create a department wide guide to which grade should be given for what knowledge. For example if a student knows x y and z that is barely acceptable so they would get a D-. If on the other hand a student knows a b c d e f … x y z then they would be outstanding and given an A. If a certain class didn’t have anyone that reached the outstanding level then so be it no one gets an A. If half the class reaches an outstanding level thats fine half the class gets an A. I post a copy of the grading rubric (on top of a very specific assignment sheet) on my class website for all my essays … and 4/5 of the students do not look at it. And I still get complaints. FWIW, my average grade is an 80 or 81 (B-), and I am considered a grade nazi. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577/46 "2004-05-18T22:38:38Z")
To finish that thought: while I am annoyed at the whiners who want their A- just for being there, being a tough grader grants me immense satisfaction, and more importantly serves as a motivator for students who find out that they can work harder and do better than they thought they could. Last semester, a student of mine finally wrote an A essay after 3 B’s. She was “thanking” me for “giving her a break” when I looked at her and told her as seriously as I could that I didn’t give her a damn thing: “You busted your ass on this and you earned it.” She sort of looked down for a second, thought it over for a couple of beats, nodded and said “Yes, I did.” I think I could almost see her self-confidence grow visibly. THAT is why grade inflation is not just educationally unsound, but morally wrong. I would just as soon get rid of grades and go to a more subjective and holistic system; but since that ain’t happening and teachers have to summarize a whole semester’s work into one letter grade, it is imperitive that teachers have a way to acknowledge exceptional work. Giving "A"s to everyone doesn’t make them “A” students: it just takes away the incentive to be anything more than mediocre. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577/47 "2004-05-18T23:18:32Z")
> [@PictsiePat](#): > > What all professors know: curves are made by profs who don’t know how to test. There is no reason for the “best” student in an undergraduate or even worse a graduate course to get a 30%. Sure there is. Getting students off scholarships. ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577/48 "2004-05-18T23:48:59Z")
I think a big problem is that people now see an “A” grade as being sucessful in a college course. The thing is that with a college with admissions standards is that everyone in the class should be smart and sucessful students. Everyone in the class should be capable of passing the course, but to receive an “A” grade a students would have to be a standout student. Sure there are colleges like Northwestern Michigan State or Northern Florida Univeristy (I made these up) but I think most people realize these schools have no standards for admissions or their students and basically are degree selling insititutions. The top universities in this countries should be leaders and demand that students live up to high standards. ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577/49 "2004-05-18T23:54:05Z")
Hopefully, college students can show better proofreading skills than I did in my last post. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577/50 "2004-05-19T11:40:33Z")
When I make up an “objective” exam (not very often, though sometimes I do an extensive “reading check” type midterm, just to see who can identify various texts and authors), I designed it to be self-curving. That means that if the highest grade in the class is a 42, I add 58 points to that person’s grade, and give a “100/A+” to him or her. Then I add 58 points to everyone’s grade and give out letter grades accordingly. Sometimes, rarely, if the highest grade is anamolous (i.e., a 94 when the next highest grade is 42) I’ll add 53 points, so that the 42 becomes a 95/A, and the 94 person gets the A+ (plus some extra recognition in my mind.) I’ve had very few complaints about this grading system. Even people who get a 12 (raw score) that gets bumped up to a 70 (C-) can see that they have no kick coming if most of the class did far better than they. (I’m using 42 because that’s the number of the day, but in practice I can’t remember a test on which the highest grade wasn’t in the 80 or more category.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grade-inflation-really-that-bad/243577.md?page=2)