# Is grafitti really that bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 29, 2001, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800 "2001-08-29T20:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/41 "2023-07-05T13:40:10Z")
I hated when the NYC subway cars were so covered with graffiti that you couldn’t read the map. Painting an otherwise blank wall is one thing, but painting over an important informational sign is unforgivable. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/42 "2023-07-05T13:50:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Graffiti on private property is vandalism. Graffiti on public or corporate property is civil disobedience. There is prehistoric graffiti all over the American desert southwest, land managers take a dim view of anyone painting over that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/43 "2023-07-05T13:55:09Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I hated when the NYC subway cars were so covered with graffiti that you couldn’t read the map. I remember when the _outsides_ of all NYC subway cars were covered with graffiti, all the time. As a kid I thought it was cool, although I can see why it would turn some people off. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/44 "2023-07-05T13:56:47Z")
I never really liked that. But I also associated that time period with the trains smelling strongly of urine. I was glad when Mayor Koch started cleaning up the Subways/L-Trains. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/45 "2023-07-05T13:58:47Z")
Bear in mind that I was 6 years old when I left Manhattan in 1981. To me, the city back then was a magical place, urine and all. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/46 "2023-07-05T14:03:13Z")
Magical yes, but boy did it stink. 🙂 Didn’t help I was living in the Bronx and then mostly visiting the Bronx. Also I remember at least 2 of the garbage strikes. Most of the graffiti was just tagging, but I remember a few buildings with some impressive work on them. All the underpasses were tagged with only a few being more than tagging. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/47 "2023-07-06T04:06:37Z")
> [@dalovindj](#): > > I can see where it would be annoying if you had to paint over it the next day over and over again. But it makes me smile when I’m walking to the train at 7:30 in the morning to go to some dull job, to see the fresh tags and think about the folks out there last nite and the rush they must have gotten. And alot of it really is damn fine artwork. Agree! And do the people who have to paint over it ever think “Hey, this wall was a lot more exciting with illegible names and wild art on it than as a boring grey wall, but here I am, making it bland again.” As someone painted one night: > **If the wall is blank, so is the mind**. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/48 "2023-07-06T04:25:27Z")
These are great. (Interact with environment) > **[Artist Makes Streets Less Boring By Making Graffiti That Interacts With The...](https://www.boredpanda.com/street-art-graffiti-interacts-surroundings-jps-artist/)** > > Art has a lot of meanings and a lot of ideas behind it. Every art piece will mean a different thing, depending on who you ask. These are interesting, some good. > **[72 Creative Graffiti Art That Turned Blank Walls Into Objects Of Admiration](https://www.boredpanda.com/graffiti-street-art/)** > > We've compiled some creative graffiti murals that breathe life into the streets! These are ancient. > **[These 30 Quotes From Ancient Pompeii Graffiti Prove Just How Little We...](https://www.boredpanda.com/graffiti-from-ancient-pompeii/)** > > If you thought that modern-day teenagers invented graffiti and inappropriate depictions of private male parts on walls - think again. Just recently, archaeologists found a 1,800-year-old drawing of penis near Hadrian's Wall which proved once again... These are funny. > **[‘Mildly Vandalised’: 50 Examples Of Funny And Harmless Vandalism (New Pics)](https://www.boredpanda.com/mildly-vandalized-pics/)** > > Some people tell the system to go fudge itself in very creative and polite ways—with mild vandalism. Meanwhile, others find that gentle vandalism is the best way to spread some cheer. These are sometimes strange or funny comments, not everyone is Gaffigan. > **[“It’s Graffiti, But Why?”: 30 Laugh-Inducing Bits Of Graffiti That Prove Not...](https://www.boredpanda.com/funny-questionable-graffiti/)** > > From works that make you ponder your existential meaning in the universe, to the evocative message of “I ams here lol,” graffiti is here to stay. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/49 "2023-07-06T13:35:54Z")
Of course, very few reach the levels above. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/50 "2023-07-06T14:03:23Z")
Funny and artistic graffiti is fine. But the vast majority of it is tagging (nuisance marking of buildings, signs, sidewalks, trucks, cars, dogs, and slow moving people). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/51 "2023-07-06T16:03:31Z")
I recently got back from a trip to Italy and I have to say you see graffiti absolutely everywhere. It is all over the place and almost nothing is left untouched (though they do seem to not tag historic sites/churches). And by everywhere I do mean everywhere. The photo below was taken outside of my hotel in Rome (in a nice part of the city). That kind of thing was pretty much anywhere you looked. I get some graffiti is art. Most is just crap. [![](https://i.imgur.com/IzQ0S4V.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/IzQ0S4V.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/52 "2023-07-06T16:35:18Z")
On my way to Patagonia last December I spent a couple of days in Valparaiso, Chile, which is known for the street art. Nearly every easily accessed surface was painted. Sure, some was tagging trash, but a lot of it is highly skilled work. I took a street art tour and learned how graffiti came to Chile and how it evolved there, creating their own style. It took me a couple of hours to adjust and get comfortable walking around since my prior experiences with graffiti were mostly on sketchy streets, but there it was everywhere and celebrated for the most part. Here are some of the more impressive murals… [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/RHxaG7Q.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/RHxaG7Q) [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/jKFAVFY.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/jKFAVFY) [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/l0OmujJ.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/l0OmujJ) [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/fl4nPdM.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/fl4nPdM) [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/mQaBes7.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/mQaBes7) [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/ed177hT.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/ed177hT) [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/dgM4qas.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/dgM4qas) [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/A0EadPe.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/A0EadPe) [More here](https://imgur.com/a/nzeDBfx). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/53 "2023-07-06T16:44:29Z")
My experience in Rome about 15 years ago was the same – anything that couldn’t walk away from a spray can was tagged and it wasn’t “street beautification” graffiti. Generally speaking, the wonderful artistry of the streets is more conceptual in places I’ve been and the reality is dingy paint scrawls of gang symbols or profanity that makes everything look worse. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/54 "2023-07-06T18:14:28Z")
I don’t live in an area with graffiti, but I’ve lived in 3 major cities that did. I like some graffiti and I’ve seen the work of quite talented graffiti artists. I like it in certain places (otherwise drab spaces), but like others, I don’t like it where it doesn’t belong (i.e. private storefronts, etc.). I’d like to see cities construct large cement walls (perhaps with scaffolding to reach higher wall levels) and put them in city parks (maybe next to the skateboarding pits) and encourage graffiti artists to cover them with their art. Example: construct 4 large walls in the park, and post notice that 1 wall will be whitewashed each year in order to start with a fresh canvas. Artists can paint on any wall, and if they paint on the newly whitewashed wall, it will remain for 4 years (unless another artist paints over it, which I don’t think they’d do if it’s good). Put park benches around the walls so the public can enjoy it. The city could also have a number of designated spots around town where graffiti is allowed (with signage stating so). Also make it known that graffiti in non-designated areas will be whitewashed asap, and they will be ticketed if caught. The city should then hold “Graffiti Day” one day each year, where the art is judged by local artists and the winners (maybe the top 3) are awarded some sort of cash prize, and a contract to paint designated public spots (bridge pylons, etc,) with their art and get paid for it. Turn graffiti into a positive for the community, encourage inner-city kids to get into and get better at art, and reward those with talent with cash rewards and a showcase for their work. Win/win. Will it stop all graffiti in all non-designated areas? No, but I think it would stifle it a bit. Why paint on something that will soon be whitewashed, and risk getting a ticket when you can just go to the park (and designated areas) and keep your work up longer, and maybe get rewarded for it? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/55 "2023-07-06T18:47:17Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > Why paint on something that will soon be whitewashed, and risk getting a ticket when you can just go to the park (and designated areas) and keep your work up longer, and maybe get rewarded for it? Because most graffiti has no artistic intent and is there to mark an area for your gang or build street cred by making your name known or to just write stupid shit. Even in the photos of Chile posted above, you can see the perimeters of the “good” street art are the same garbage tagging as in every other urban area. Your idea might make for some nice murals (until someone else sprays a gang tag on it) but it wouldn’t cut down on the sort of graffiti that pretty much everyone objects to. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/56 "2023-07-06T19:39:17Z")
Murals are great, but no way they are graffiti. Look at that first picture. The stairs are art; the walls are vandalism. I would argue that street art, including murals, is a necessary antidote to the pernicious effects of graffiti. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/57 "2023-07-11T14:39:46Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Funny and artistic graffiti is fine. But the vast majority of it is tagging (nuisance marking of buildings, signs, sidewalks, trucks, cars, dogs, and slow moving people). By the way, I’m inventing an app for Apple’s new Vision Pro. It allows older people to read tagging, by morphing the swoopy interconnected letters into Times Roman. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/58 "2023-07-11T14:46:11Z")
> [@digs](#): > > by morphing the swoopy interconnected letters into Times Roman. Why not Comic Sans? It fits the theme better. Crap “art” gets transcribed into a crap font. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/59 "2023-07-11T20:45:08Z")
I’d use it when it’s available for Android. Be helpful if it works the other way when I’m doing the tagging. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800/60 "2023-07-11T21:04:07Z")
> [@stolichnaya](#): > > Graffiti is undoubtedtly art. Not gang tags or just plain tagging. Is a swastika spray painted on a synagogue “Art”? > [@lawoot](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > > \*\*Lets face it, 99% of grafitti is not some beautiful mural that the artist created in a Ghetto style using spraypaint. Most of it is chicken scratch written by some 15 yr old who wants the world to know that he “rules”. I can piss my name on a wall too. That don’t make it art. \*\* > > AMEN! Yep. > [@Common\_Tater](#): > > There is prehistoric graffiti all over the American desert southwest, land managers take a dim view of anyone painting over that. When done, the natives were doing it _on their own land._ So, we all agree you can do graffiti on your own property. But they dont. > [@Tibby](#): > > unless another artist paints over it, which I don’t think they’d do if it’s good). Altho there seems to be some reluctance to tagging great mural art, that doesnt stop all of them. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Because most graffiti has no artistic intent and is there to mark an area for your gang or build street cred by making your name known or to just write stupid shit. Exactly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-grafitti-really-that-bad/78800.md?page=4)