# Is Great Britain as enlightened as it seems from TV? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 4, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510 "2011-08-04T21:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![enigmatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@enigmatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigmatic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/41 "2011-08-05T11:57:14Z")
And this years all internet champion in the category of “much” abuse is… ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/42 "2011-08-05T11:59:11Z")
Some people would say that British TV does not reflect reality, but rather it’s a left-wing metro-intellectual attempt at social engineering. i.e. “If we put enough mixed-race couples and gay policemen on TV then it will become accepted in wider society”. Many (most?) people who work in TV (especially the BBC) are likely to be university educated, London-based, and left-leaning in their politics. That’s a broad brush statement and there are lots of counter examples, but as a general culture it definately leans left rather than right, and that arguably skews the images put out on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/43 "2011-08-05T13:03:03Z")
Seems like a bit of a jump to go straight to “therefore they may well be deliberately trying to create social change”. I could well believe that those who go to university in or live in London might well find themselves in more of a cultural melting pot than somewhere out in the country, and so cast or write based on what they see as normal. I live (basically) in London myself, and TV in that regard seems to map well enough to my reality. But it seems rather unfair to declare - even by declaring on behalf of others - an active attempt to misrepresent in order to push social changes. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/44 "2011-08-05T17:59:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I wouldn’t say it’s unenlightened, but swearing does tend to be used more frequently by those with lower vocabularies, and, when used instead of an elucidated response, really isn’t enlightened at all. > > That doesn’t mean that an enlightened person can’t use it, but they are either being unenlightened at the time, or are intentionally using it for effect. I can’t help but be reminded of [what Stephen Fry has to say on the subject](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM). ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/45 "2011-08-05T19:03:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sometimes I think they go too far - there do seem to be an awful lot of Blacks in Ancient Rome, Renaissance Venice etc… Maybe a bit far, but they did have blacks around then, you know. Cushite auxilia and so on. > [@wayward](#): > > I’ve thought for a while that maybe the reason for a lot of the differences between the UK and the US is that we’re more mature as a nation. I don’t mean to say the people are more mature, but the nation itself. We’ve been a melting pot of invading and immigrating cultures for thousands of years. We’ve had our civil wars, uprisings and revolutions. We’ve ruled over the greatest empire the world has ever known, and seen it slip away again. > > I guess we’ve learned to not sweat the small stuff. Also, Texas: we haven’t got it. Also, all those other American places famous for mad right wingers, fundamentalist and inbred rednecks. Somehow Norfolk just isn’t the same. > [@enigmatic](#): > > A few points > > 1. A large section of the UK population is much more accepting of race, sexual preference, religious beliefs, A large population isn’t. There are still big divisions on this stuff (with the possible exception of religion) along age lines, and, to a lesser extent, class lines (or more accurately “went to university” lines). I know the university educated tend to get better paying jobs and become upstanding middle-class people who read the Daily Mail and worry about house prices, immigrants, swan-roasting Romanian paedophiles and gypsies moving in at the bottom of the garden, but I don’t think it’s entirely fair to just assume that the university educated _as a class_ are racist. As a member of the GCSE-less underclass, though, I do find women of racial minorities to often be sexually attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/46 "2011-08-05T20:40:38Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I know the university educated tend to get better paying jobs and become upstanding middle-class people who read the Daily Mail and worry about house prices, immigrants, swan-roasting Romanian paedophiles and gypsies moving in at the bottom of the garden, but I don’t think it’s entirely fair to just assume that the university educated _as a class_ are racist. Am I being wooshed? I’d understood the bit you quoted as meaning people that went to Uni are \*less \*likely to be racist, as they probably have been more exposed to people from different cultures and countries! ---
**Author:** ![enigmatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@enigmatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigmatic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/47 "2011-08-05T22:09:21Z")
Yeah, amongst younger people at least you are likely to find a lot more tolerance among the people who have been to university (which is now a pretty significant proportion of the total) as this is generally the place that you are going to meet people from a much broader range of backgrounds. Again I think that there are going to be big geographical issues here. Someone who has grown up in London or Birmingham is probably going to meet a broad range of people whatever they do. Someone who is born, raised, and employed in Harrogate without going to university, less so. Obviously I’m painting with a very broad brush here. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/48 "2011-08-05T23:35:50Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > 😕:dubious: Bar fights, young people drunk and aggro aren’t common in the US? Petty theft is non-existent too? > > You paint a funny picture of England, now had you said Scotland I might have to agree 😉 Hey- I did a study-abroad summer in Oxford about 8 years ago, and we graduate students were ASTOUNDED at just how drunk people got, and how many fights broke out after the clubs closed at 2 am. Exorcist-style vomiting, passing out on the streets- male and female, pissing in alleys (male & female), fighting, vomiting, laying half-comatose, etc… I mean, I’ve seen a few bar fights in and around college bars, but it’s not a common thing, or at least wasn’t where I went to school (Texas A&M). Nor do I remember that many people being that drunk commonly. Plenty of drunks, but not to that degree in those numbers. Yet there we were with some pint-sized English guys trying to pick fights with other guys in our group, just because he had a US soccer jersey on. Luckily, I’m a long way from pint-sized (6’1" and an athletic 235 lbs- like a rugby prop), so when I put my hand on the guy’s shoulder and inquired as to what was going on, he backed off in a hurry. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/49 "2011-08-06T05:25:04Z")
> [@hermette](#): > > Am I being wooshed? I’d understood the bit you quoted as meaning people that went to Uni are \*less \*likely to be racist, as they probably have been more exposed to people from different cultures and countries! Well, that’s just silly. Most university-types probably don’t see a black fellah from one year to the next. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/50 "2011-08-06T07:13:33Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Well, that’s just silly. Most university-types probably don’t see a black fellah from one year to the next. Really? And what temple of racial purity did you get your degree from? Because that statement if in regards to British Universities is utter bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![QuizCustodet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ba0ec/32.png) [@QuizCustodet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuizCustodet)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/51 "2011-08-06T13:01:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > On the other hand, Britain does not allow satirical programs to [use footage of Parliment to hold it up to ridicule](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/03/idUS359828967620110803):Not so enlightened when it comes to political speech. As I understand it based on a BBC report on this issue (which does not seem to be available online), the issue is not the use of Parliamentary footage, it is about the editing of Parliamentary footage, for comic effect or otherwise. So if broadcasting an entire and unedited debate makes politicians look stupid, they’re on their own - but you are prohibited from editing their quotes in Parliament. As pointed out previously, there is no shortage of (sometimes quite vicious) political satire in Britain as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/52 "2011-08-06T14:14:24Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Who was the interracial couple in High School Musical? I remember thinking it was a bit funny that, even though the friendships very carefully crossed racial lines, the lead white characters paired up and the second-string black characters paired up. Zac Efron is white and Vanessa Hudgens is hispanic. I’m not sure I’d consider them an interracial couple, but some do. When it comes to interracial couples on US TV, it’s typically minor characters like Stanley on The Office and his (rarely seen) white wife or Barney’s black half-brother on How I Met Your Mother who’s married to a (seen only once) white man. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/53 "2011-08-06T14:50:25Z")
I’ve definitely seen short clips of Parliament on the news, which must have been edited, both live and recorded. > [@SanVito](#): > > Really? And what temple of racial purity did you get your degree from? Because that statement if in regards to British Universities is utter bollocks. University of life, mate. School of hard knocks. College of getting your teeth kicked in. Coincidentally, the only institution of higher education in the land not possessed of a disproportionate number of rich white women, although I chose it due to the favourable finance options on offer. ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/54 "2011-08-06T16:40:54Z")
**Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huangdi View Post** I believe in the British airing of the Simpsons they bleep out any sort of profanity and anything otherwise offensive. Not to mention Britain has Sharia courts, you can get arrested for “hate speech”, and so on. > [@tagos](#): > > You really need to get out more. It’d probably be a good idea to stop reading the ‘free reupublic’ boards, too.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![drbhoneydew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d78d45/32.png) [@drbhoneydew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drbhoneydew)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/55 "2011-08-06T19:54:27Z")
> [@QuizCustodet](#): > > As I understand it based on a BBC report on this issue (which does not seem to be available online), the issue is not the use of Parliamentary footage, it is about the editing of Parliamentary footage, for comic effect or otherwise. So if broadcasting an entire and unedited debate makes politicians look stupid, they’re on their own - but you are prohibited from editing their quotes in Parliament. > > As pointed out previously, there is no shortage of (sometimes quite vicious) political satire in Britain as a whole. No, it IS the use of parliamentary footage in satire - the decision not to air was based on section 4 in [here](http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/44912/response/114522/attach/html/2/Televising%20Parliament%20Aug%202008.pdf.html). However, this only applies to TV footage, and not to radio - slightly different rules apply there. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/56 "2011-08-06T22:00:36Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > 😕:dubious: Bar fights, young people drunk and aggro aren’t common in the US? Petty theft is non-existent too? > > You paint a funny picture of England, now had you said Scotland I might have to agree 😉 Even I, living in the middle of nowhere, have heard from two people who travel that the worst place in the world to be is in England when the bars let out. I know you’re being defensive, and I suppose some areas are more genteel than others over there. But here - Bar fights, here, make the local news. Any bar where lots of fights go on, in or outside, lose their license (and this goes for corner stores and bodegas). Bars and clubs in some areas are denied licenses if the neighbors object to their opening, citing traffic and noise, but really meaning they don’t want drunks driving across their lawns or urinating in the bushes. Not to mention traffic checks and roadblocks on all major holidays. (I used to hang out in a wonderful dance club in a bad part of town, was friends with the bouncer, Bigfoot. At the very first sign of trouble, the troublemaker was escorted out within 30 seconds, and anyone already inebriated wasn’t allowed in.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/57 "2011-08-06T22:43:59Z")
My chief exposure to British-produced television shows is what’s shown on PBS, so the selection is probably skewed to appeal to PBS viewers, but what’s always struck me is the number of British sitcoms that are centered on older people: _Keeping Up Appearances_, _As Time Goes By_, _Last of the Summer Wine_, _Waiting for God_, etc. Plenty of American sitcoms have supporting characters over the age of 60, but it’s pretty rare to have people that age as the leads. That said, when I visited England I noticed that a good chunk of what airs on television there was made in America. So it’s not like the British are too enlightened to watch American shows. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/58 "2011-08-07T00:01:35Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > My chief exposure to British-produced television shows is what’s shown on PBS, so the selection is probably skewed to appeal to PBS viewers, but what’s always struck me is the number of British sitcoms that are centered on older people: _Keeping Up Appearances_, _As Time Goes By_, _Last of the Summer Wine_, _Waiting for God_, etc. Plenty of American sitcoms have supporting characters over the age of 60, but it’s pretty rare to have people that age as the leads. Three of the four all premiered within 18 months of each other. It was likely one of those television trends that happen in America too. I mean, just look at the TV listings for 1995-1997 and count how many Friends imitators premiered. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/59 "2011-08-08T06:12:23Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > University of life, mate. School of hard knocks. College of getting your teeth kicked in. Coincidentally, the only institution of higher education in the land not possessed of a disproportionate number of rich white women, although I chose it due to the favourable finance options on offer. Aah, that’ll be why you’ve no idea what you’re talking about then. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/60 "2011-08-08T08:28:11Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Zac Efron is white and Vanessa Hudgens is hispanic. I’m not sure I’d consider them an interracial couple, but some do. Oh yes, thank you, I had indeed forgotten that Hispanics are non-white in some parts of the world. Thanks for the clarification! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510.md?page=4)