# Is Great Britain as enlightened as it seems from TV? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 4, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510 "2011-08-04T21:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/61 "2011-08-08T10:07:44Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Who was the interracial couple in High School Musical? I remember thinking it was a bit funny that, even though the friendships very carefully crossed racial lines, the lead white characters paired up and the second-string black characters paired up. My bad, I thought the dude with the 'fro was paired up with the blonde chick. I don’t watch this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/62 "2011-08-08T10:34:59Z")
> [@HennaDancer](#): > > Have the Brits by and large gotten over the prejudices us Yanks still deal with? Some things are far less controversial over here, one incident in particular springs to mind. When some American friends came to visit, my parents thought the sitcom Father Ted would be a suitable bit of light entertainment. To the visitors it was baffling and offensive (they are Catholic), but apologies were offered and an international incident avoided. It simply didn’t occur to my parents that a comedy about three priests banished to a remote island for various indiscretions would upset anyone. The almost total absence of the religious right changes the landscape over here quite a bit. Sex education is another area where attitudes are far more liberal over here. For example, one programme on the subject showed nude female models being presented (via a projector screen) to an assembly room full of school children. I imagine that would cause a furore in the states. However, a quick flick through our tabloid press shows we can hardly claim to be particularly enlightened as a country. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > On the other hand, Britain does not allow satirical programs to [use footage of Parliment to hold it up to ridicule](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/03/idUS359828967620110803):Not so enlightened when it comes to political speech. As others have pointed out, that really isn’t representative, it’s just a silly bylaw that hasn’t yet been repealed. I’ll try and find a suitable Spitting Image clip later (1980s satirical TV show, with puppets of politicians and celebrities). > [@blindboyard](#): > > Well, that’s just silly. Most university-types probably don’t see a black fellah from one year to the next. This is utter nonsense. Why do you think black people don’t go to university in the UK? I knew several. Gandhi studied law at University College London, in 1888. > [@Lamia](#): > > My chief exposure to British-produced television shows is what’s shown on PBS, so the selection is probably skewed to appeal to PBS viewers, but what’s always struck me is the number of British sitcoms that are centered on older people: _Keeping Up Appearances_, _As Time Goes By_, _Last of the Summer Wine_, _Waiting for God_, etc. Plenty of American sitcoms have supporting characters over the age of 60, but it’s pretty rare to have people that age as the leads. You should also add _One Foot in the Grave_ to that list, which was one of the most popular sitcoms in the UK for several years. Technically, Richard Wilson was only 55 when it started, but he looked much older, and portrayed a pensioner. Mind you, I think all of those programmes were commissioned by the BBC. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > English people are great when they aren’t rip-roaring drunk at the pub every night with the younger males getting into street fights for recreation that land you in prison in the U.S. for a long time. That is another stereotype they have with some degree of truth to it. If you want to get beaten senseless and/or have your stuff stolen in a petty theft, England is your utopia. You are greatly exaggerating, a typical night out in the UK does not include violence, I’ve never seen an actual fight. However, it very much depends on the area. I rarely go into city centres in the evening, towns are generally quieter. There is no question that the UK has a problem with alcohol related anti-social behaviour, binge drinking is fairly common. Burglaries are more common in the UK than the US, but I still know few people it has actually happened to. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/63 "2011-08-08T14:39:03Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > 😕:dubious: Bar fights, young people drunk and aggro aren’t common in the US? Petty theft is non-existent too? > > You paint a funny picture of England, now had you said Scotland I might have to agree 😉 The only bar fight I have ever witnessed in Britain was in London (in an Irish pub 😛 ). ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/64 "2011-08-08T14:48:10Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > When it comes to interracial couples on US TV, it’s typically minor characters like Stanley on The Office and his (rarely seen) white wife or Barney’s black half-brother on How I Met Your Mother who’s married to a (seen only once) white man. The first interracial couple I can remember as regulars on network TV was Tom and Helen Willis who were regulars on “The Jeffersons” from 1975 to 85. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/65 "2011-08-08T22:22:26Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Zac Efron is white and Vanessa Hudgens is hispanic. I’m not sure I’d consider them an interracial couple, but some do. > > When it comes to interracial couples on US TV, it’s typically minor characters like Stanley on The Office and his (rarely seen) white wife or Barney’s black half-brother on How I Met Your Mother who’s married to a (seen only once) white man. There is an interracial couple (black husband, white wife) in the main cast of the new-ish sitcom _Happy Endings_. There was also Joy and Crabman on _My Name is Earl_, although that’s been off the air for a couple of years. I think interracial combinations _other_ than black/white are more common on American television. I rarely if ever watched _Lost_, _Heroes_, and _ER_ when they were on the air, but I think they all had interracial romances of one kind or another. Of current shows, it’s my impression that the Sandra Oh character on _Grey’s Anatomy_ has dated non-Asian guys although that’s another show I don’t watch. _Glee_ had several interracial couples in the first season, although none lasted into the second season unless Hispanic counts as a non-white race (Santana dated several non-Hispanic characters). If it does, there’s also the married couple of Gloria (Colombian) and Jay (Anglo-American) on _Modern Family_. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/66 "2011-08-09T02:45:45Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Even I, living in the middle of nowhere, have heard from two people who travel that the worst place in the world to be is in England when the bars let out. I know you’re being defensive, and I suppose some areas are more genteel than others over there. Not beind defensive in the slightest. I don’t live in Britain, I just think that part of British culture is overstated a lot of the time. I also think that bar fights do happen a lot in bars in the US too but for some reason it’s not seen as a cultural sterotype. I’ve been in the US numerous times, and have seen stuff kicking off in pubs. Anywhere young men get inebriated there’s going to be some of that carry-on. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/67 "2011-08-09T08:15:16Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > 😕:dubious: Bar fights, young people drunk and aggro aren’t common in the US? Petty theft is non-existent too? > > You paint a funny picture of England, now had you said Scotland I might have to agree 😉 Based on the little time I’ve spent in the UK and recollections from other friends, the three things I think most Brits would be genuinely surprised by if they came to the US: 1. Public drunkenness really is pretty damn uncommon, and people that are try to hide it. 2. We have a stunning, stunning array of sweet, flavored beverages for sale everywhere. 3. Many of us ignore celebrity gossip almost entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/68 "2011-08-09T09:42:10Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Even I, living in the middle of nowhere, have heard from two people who travel that the worst place in the world to be is in England when the bars let out. Ever tried the same time of the day in rural/small town Finland, Sweden or Norway? Public drunkenness up to and including puking and fistfights are a way of life for some people up here. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/69 "2011-08-09T10:07:06Z")
I do see a lot more “regular” looking people on the BBC than I do on American television. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/70 "2011-08-09T12:50:24Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > Based on the little time I’ve spent in the UK and recollections from other friends, the three things I think most Brits would be genuinely surprised by if they came to the US: > > 1. Public drunkenness really is pretty damn uncommon, and people that are try to hide it. Depends on where you are. There are parts of San Francisco where drunks passed out in puddles of vomit are a regular sight, and little bitty Montana towns where they have to hose down the sidewalk in front of some of the bars in the morning during rodeo season because of the blood from the previous night’s drunken brawling. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/71 "2011-08-09T12:54:10Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > The first interracial couple I can remember as regulars on network TV was Tom and Helen Willis who were regulars on “The Jeffersons” from 1975 to 85. That was also a significant plot point. As someone above mentioned it was one of those “making a statement” character choices, rather than just a random “Hey, these two actors have great chemistry together.” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/72 "2011-08-09T13:46:17Z")
I’ve been enjoying _The Writers’s Tale: Final Chapter_ by Russell Davies & Benjamin Cook, based on their e-mail correspondence. Davies, of course, was the show-runner who revived _Doctor Who_; the book starts as they begin working on the year with Donna Noble as companion & will end as David Tennant leaves the show. Davies was also working on _Torchwood_ & _The Sarah Jane Adventures_, trying to have a life & reminiscing about the past. Very busy, but very fascinating. Davies mentioned an earlier BBC show noted for its forward-thinking racial diversity. I believe it was an SF’er with most of the cast in uniform. He said they hired diverse actors to avoid everybody looking alike. You know, a group of good-looking white guys with dark hair need more than a blond or a ginger guy to differentiate the characters. How about some non-whites & even some women to liven things up? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/73 "2011-08-09T15:00:00Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > I also figure that HBO, Showtime, and Cinemax lobby the FCC to keep decency standards in place so they can be the nation’s source for soft-core porn. They have no interest in spending time or money lobbying the F.C.C. or Congress on this issue. It’s not like HBO, Showtime, and Cinemax are independent operators protecting their own “soft core” territory from broadcast networks and basic cable – _they’re all owned by the same people_. HBO and Cinemax are owned by Warner Bros., which also owns CNN, TBS, TNT, the Cartoon Network, truTV, and Turner Classic Movies. Showtime is owned by CBS. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/74 "2011-08-09T15:23:03Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Davies mentioned an earlier BBC show noted for its forward-thinking racial diversity. I believe it was an SF’er with most of the cast in uniform. He said they hired diverse actors to avoid everybody looking alike. You know, a group of good-looking white guys with dark hair need more than a blond or a ginger guy to differentiate the characters. How about some non-whites & even some women to liven things up? I don’t think the BBC commissioned Star Trek. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/75 "2011-08-09T16:03:28Z")
The OP is comparing apples and oranges to support a hypothesis. If you only watched the Soprano’s, The Wire, etc., you might come to the opposite conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/76 "2011-08-09T16:26:09Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I don’t think the BBC commissioned Star Trek. Who would? Although I’m wondering why they show\* The Next Generation\* on BBCamerica… ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/77 "2011-08-09T16:32:18Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Who would? The show you cited sounds just like the original series of Star Trek. The creator wanted to show a future where different nations and races had overcome their differences. I can’t think of a UK Sci-Fi show that meets your description, so I wondered if you were getting mixed up there. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/78 "2011-08-09T18:03:39Z")
Are riots relevant? > [@Odesio](#): > > I do see a lot more “regular” looking people on the BBC than I do on American television. Feel free to say “ugly”. > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > This is utter nonsense. Why do you think black people don’t go to university in the UK? I knew several. Gandhi studied law at University College London, in 1888. And black people are still much less likely to go to university, and then to move in university educated circles thereafter. The true “nonsense” is the position put about above, that poor people are a bunch of racist chavs. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/79 "2011-08-09T18:27:57Z")
This was the nonsense. > [@blindboyard](#): > > Most university-types probably don’t see a black fellah from one year to the next. Big difference between saying that and saying the black population is under-represented at university level. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510/80 "2011-08-09T20:50:14Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > And black people are still much less likely to go to university, and then to move in university educated circles thereafter. The true “nonsense” is the position put about above, that poor people are a bunch of racist chavs. [British ethnic minorities are better represented in higher education than their share of the general population.](http://www.bitc.org.uk/workplace/diversity_and_inclusion/race/hesa_report.html) Not saying that everything in the garden is rosy, but “much less likely to go to university” seems to be untrue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-great-britain-as-enlightened-as-it-seems-from-tv/591510.md?page=5)