# Is guarding the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier a sought-after posting or something most want to avoid? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 25, 2020, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464 "2020-02-25T01:11:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/101 "2020-03-01T04:03:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My point is, since he is already there pacing back and forth, why not make him a real guard? > > Do you have a reason why not to do that? You’re creating a false dichotomy. He can indeed be a “real” guard. That doesn’t mean he’s the only person guarding the scene. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/102 "2020-03-01T08:54:28Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > I don’t have any further expertise about whether or not the guards are actually armed, but I can say this: > > A few years ago, my wife and I visited the Tomb of the Unknowns. A Marine was the Sergeant of the Guard. This guy was the largest man I have ever seen in my life. He was a mountain of a human being. I cannot imagine his needing a gun to enforce any directive he chose to issue. I’m not sure how that can be guarding the tomb is an Army function. The Marines are not involved. Marines from the DC barracks can be involved in other functions in Arlington from time to time but tomb guard is all Army. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/103 "2020-03-01T09:22:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The tomb guard is already there. Let him be an actual guard. > > The military are not on city street corners looking spiffy. What is it you think he has the authority to do? He can’t arrest anyone. He can’t detain anyone. He can only use deadly force in self-defense. He can’t shoot someone for touching the Tomb or talking loudly. He has no authority to do anything other than call the police when someone is misbehaving. Giving the guard live ammo is not going to change the fact that he has no authority to use it unless someone is actually trying to kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/104 "2020-03-01T09:32:20Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > What is it you think he has the authority to do? He can’t arrest anyone. He can’t detain anyone. He can only use deadly force in self-defense. He can’t shoot someone for touching the Tomb or talking loudly. He has no authority to do anything other than call the police when someone is misbehaving. Giving the guard live ammo is not going to change the fact that he has no authority to use it unless someone is actually trying to kill him. Also, there is a reason why police and armed security guards aren’t patrolling with M14s and bayonets. As a personal defense weapon goes, it’s a pretty shitty choice. If we wanted to give the Tomb Guards an armed police function, we would need to give them more than just bullets for their rifles. A pistol and some hand cuffs at a minimum, I’d think. And then maybe a radio to communicate with dispatch. Perhaps some body armor. Hmmm… they start looking less and less like a spit-and-polish Honor Guard now, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Vesicant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/43a26b/32.png) [@Vesicant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vesicant)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/105 "2020-03-01T11:03:08Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Exactly! And what is the logical consequence of this? If the rifle is empty during the inspection… and the guard stays in sight following the inspection… and the guard never puts a magazine in the weapon after the inspection… then the rifle is _still_ empty during the walk. Every single step and movement of these guys is scripted. At no point do they ceremoniously load a magazine. > > If the rifle is empty during inspection, and we never see a magazine loaded, then the weapon is still empty. > > The guards are not armed with M17s. Only the Relief Commander carries an M17. He/She has always been armed with a pistol. The M17 just replaced the M9s they’ve had since the 1980s. > > The guards themselves do not have M17s. Only the Commander of the Relief (who, himself _is_ a Tomb Guard) carries a pistol. They can be seen during the changing of the guard and during other ceremonies. However, the guys pacing back and forth on the mat do not wear pistols. Some clarifications: 1. I was talking about inspections and guard duty in general, not just the TUS. The TUS sentinels don’t load their rifles after the inspection, but guards on duty at other places might depending on what they’re guarding. 2. My comment about the sentinels having M17s was a brain phart – I know the sentinels don’t carry pistols, but I apparently had “live rounds” on the brain, slapped it in, and scrambled the syntax. I meant to say “…even though the sentinels don’t have M17s, the Sergeant of the Guard probably has live rounds in his.” 3. I wasn’t saying that the presentation M17s were the only pistols the guards had ever had throughout history, just that they were special (“now” meaning since 2018). Everybody was focused on the M14s and didn’t seem aware that the Sergeant of the Guard/Commander of the Relief carries a pistol. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/106 "2020-03-01T15:41:17Z")
This is a formal apology to **Bear\_Nenno**. I had based my assumption on the opinion that someone in the Army – people handle small arms as a living – would know better than to \*pretend \* to load a weapon. Apparently I was wrong. Years ago I had a friend who carried a .357 in his glovebox and during an altercation over a parking spot he got it out and was waving it around. He was disappointed when the other guy did not back down. I asked him, “Wait. You were truly ready to shoot someone over a parking space?” “Oh, it wasn’t loaded.” “… You’re an idiot.” The guy in the video, not some nugget right out of basic training but presumably several cuts above, is an idiot. Honestly, if they are to be guards in the ceremonial sense only, I don’t know why they aren’t issued a plugged M1903 Springfield like the one I lugged around in boot camp. They can be made just as pretty and are even more traditional looking than the M14. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/107 "2020-03-01T17:38:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My point is, since he is already there pacing back and forth, why not make him a real guard? > > Do you have a reason why not to do that? I’m sure he is a real guard to the extent that he would break character and physically detain someone if they sprinted across the plaza with a bottle of spray paint. Probably take the person to the ground with extreme prejudice. After that, the actual police would show up and book the person into the county jail on whatever charges were applicable (e.g. trespass, attempted vandalism of a monument, whatever applies). But I understood your objection to be that he needed a loaded rifle in order to be a more “real” guard. Having a loaded rifle in that scenario would cause far more harm than good. As Bear\_Nenno said, he can’t just splatter the tourist’s guts all over the plaza for simple trespass or even for defacing the Tomb. He could only use deadly force for defense of himself or others against deadly force threatened. A rifle is a terribly inefficient weapon for that in an area littered with tourists. And if he is surprised and has the weapon taken, then you have just given a crazy person a fully loaded M14 in Arlington National Cemetery. If not carrying a weapon makes him less than a “real” guard, then you have to issue him a pistol, handcuffs, a backup radio, and a taser, all of which takes away from the ceremonial nature of the post which is the only purpose it is installed for in the first place. A short walk away is JFK’s tomb. There is no guard there, real or otherwise. There is no need for a “real” guard at the Tomb. It is ceremony. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/108 "2020-03-01T19:04:50Z")
The Old Guard provides escorts for The President of the United States. It also provide guards for foreign heads of states. I doubt that the members of this elite unit are considered likely to use a loaded weapon indiscriminately. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/109 "2020-03-02T03:41:54Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I should have posted this in the OP but the tomb guards doing their thing reminds me of the Monty Python skit, [Marching Up and Down the Square](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLJ8ILIE780). Reality can be stranger than fiction: India and Pakistan: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ0ue-XGl9c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ0ue-XGl9c) Greece: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFWmADWAYbI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFWmADWAYbI) ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/110 "2020-03-02T04:55:08Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > The Old Guard provides escorts for The President of the United States. It also provide guards for foreign heads of states. I doubt that the members of this elite unit are considered likely to use a loaded weapon indiscriminately. The _escorts_ they provide for the president involve marching, playing fifes and drums, blowing bugles, marching in parades and performing in ceremonies. They do not pull security details like the way you seem to be implying. The presidential guard, or _Escort to the President_ is a ceremonial unit that still wears continental Army uniforms. They’re an unarmed marching band. They don’t actually guard the president. If a riot or terrorist attack breaks out, some of the Old Guard would be used to assist local authorities, but that’s not a common occurrence. They don’t guard foreign heads of state either. They provide “escort” services, as in “parades”, marching and ceremonial functions. They are not _escorts_ in the sense of being body guards. The protection of foreign dignitaries is handled by either the US Secret Service or the US Diplomatic Security Service, depending on how important the person may be. They are not guarded by the Old Guard. They might receive an “escort”, as in they will get a nice parade and welcoming ceremony. But that’s the extent of the Old Guard’s involvement. The Old Guard are not an elite group providing executive protection to the President. They are a ceremonial unit that performs parades, funerals, and national ceremonies. They are insanely good at it; perhaps the best in the world. But being good at the latter doesn’t make them decent at the former. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/111 "2020-03-02T08:56:23Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The guy in the video, not some nugget right out of basic training but presumably several cuts above, is an idiot. But Tomb Guards and similarly organized/dedicated ceremonial units of rifle monkeys _are_ generally straight out of basic training. He was almost certainly on his first tour of his first enlistment, along with just about every other tomb guard (as in, excepting those assigned as NCOs and officers, and therefore not personally standing post in front of spectators). I don’t know how or why people get it into their heads that the soldiers/airmen/marines/sailors they see twirling rifles around as part of ceremonial units (be they drill teams, tomb guards, that guy who stands next to the helicopter and salutes the President as he boards, or full military honors funeral escort details at Arlington) are seasoned veterans. They’re generally not (again, excepting their NCOs and officers). There are better things for seasoned veterans to do than twirl a rifle around. Yes, even “be put in charge of people who twirl a rifle around” rates higher than “twirl a rifle around.” And for all you know, racking the bolt is a prescribed method to draw someone’s attention to them, a sort of “punctuation” to draw the deviant’s attention to them and make it abundantly clear that, “Yes, I’m talking to you, and no, I’m not happy.” ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/112 "2020-03-02T14:48:47Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m not sure how that can be guarding the tomb is an Army function. The Marines are not involved. Marines from the DC barracks can be involved in other functions in Arlington from time to time but tomb guard is all Army. I stand corrected. I remember him as being a Marine, but I am clearly mistaken. He was still a huge man. He made everyone else there appear tiny in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/113 "2020-03-02T14:49:47Z")
On a related note, can women be Sentinels? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/114 "2020-03-02T14:53:09Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > On a related note, can women be Sentinels? [Yes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOBJvVz7xgc) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/115 "2020-03-02T15:44:47Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > On a related note, can women be Sentinels? There have been a few. The first was in 1997. One of the main limiting factors is that the physical requirements are the same. They must be at least 5’10”. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > But Tomb Guards and similarly organized/dedicated ceremonial units of rifle monkeys _are_ generally straight out of basic training. He was almost certainly on his first tour of his first enlistment, along with just about every other tomb guard (as in, excepting those assigned as NCOs and officers, and therefore not personally standing post in front of spectators). I don’t know how or why people get it into their heads that the soldiers/airmen/marines/sailors they see twirling rifles around as part of ceremonial units (be they drill teams, tomb guards, that guy who stands next to the helicopter and salutes the President as he boards, or full military honors funeral escort details at Arlington) are seasoned veterans. They’re generally not (again, excepting their NCOs and officers). There are better things for seasoned veterans to do than twirl a rifle around. Yes, even “be put in charge of people who twirl a rifle around” rates higher than “twirl a rifle around.” > > And for all you know, racking the bolt is a prescribed method to draw someone’s attention to them, a sort of “punctuation” to draw the deviant’s attention to them and make it abundantly clear that, “Yes, I’m talking to you, and no, I’m not happy.” Tomb guards are not straight out of basic. They tried to recruit me into the Old Guard from my unit in Germany. Given the length of training it takes to take The Walk it doesn’t seem possible to be less than a specialist by the time they earn the badge. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/116 "2020-03-02T18:22:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > **Vesicant** above suggests they actually do have sidearms. If so then they are being used as actual guards. They are actual guards regardless of how they are armed. An honor guard is a guard, full stop. I know you really want this to be some sort of “gotcha” about a good guy with a gun being the only effective sort of security, but it’s just not happening. An honor guard is not equivalent to a security guard without consciously trying to elide the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/117 "2020-03-06T03:00:08Z")
This morning I discovered [TodayIFoundOut](http://www.todayifoundout.com/) and one of the links was to this video, [How do They Decide Who Gets to Guard the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J79-dpcj9AE). It’s very informative for a 10’ video. Personally, I think all the ceremony surrounding that tomb is a bit much. Every one of the service members interred deserves, IMHO, respect. No more, no less. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/118 "2020-03-06T18:23:48Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But I understood your objection to be that he needed a loaded rifle in order to be a more “real” guard. Having a loaded rifle in that scenario would cause far more harm than good. As Bear\_Nenno said, he can’t just splatter the tourist’s guts all over the plaza for simple trespass or even for defacing the Tomb. He could only use deadly force for defense of himself or others against deadly force threatened. > > A rifle is a terribly inefficient weapon for that in an area littered with tourists. And if he is surprised and has the weapon taken, then you have just given a crazy person a fully loaded M14 in Arlington National Cemetery. Good thing they are armed with pistols then. - [The M17 Pistols Carried by the Sentinels of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier](https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/the-m17-pistols-carried-by-the-sentinels-of-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier/357743) - [This is the special M17 pistol that will guard The Unknown Soldier](https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/2018/10/05/this-is-the-special-m17-pistol-that-will-guard-the-unknown-soldier/) ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/119 "2020-03-06T19:26:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Good thing they are armed with pistols then. Take the time to watch [this video of the changing of the guard.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgbPHm_sXfg) The relief commander - the soldier who oversees the changing of the guard - definitely is armed with a (holstered) pistol. However, the sentinels who are out there doing the hour-long marches are clearly not armed with pistols. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464/120 "2020-03-06T19:54:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Good thing they are armed with pistols then. > > - [The M17 Pistols Carried by the Sentinels of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier](https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/the-m17-pistols-carried-by-the-sentinels-of-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier/357743) > - [This is the special M17 pistol that will guard The Unknown Soldier](https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/2018/10/05/this-is-the-special-m17-pistol-that-will-guard-the-unknown-soldier/) Very cool - thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-a-sought-after-posting-or-something-most-want-to-avoid/848464.md?page=7)