# Is "gyp" a derogatory word? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502 "2012-05-10T15:09:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/41 "2012-05-11T21:09:48Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > So a bit like the term “Eskimo”. Yeah, I can’t remember the last time I got eskimoed. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/42 "2012-05-11T21:32:55Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Yeah, I can’t remember the last time I got eskimoed. My analogy was about the term _gypsy_, not about the term _gyp_. Either you completely misread my post and the post it replied to, or I don’t really get the joke here. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/43 "2012-05-11T22:56:20Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > How do you feel about the terms “philistine” and “barbarian” (both of which have been applied to specific ethnicities in the past)? I would find out how individuals of that ethnicity felt about the terms first. Are there any groups that self-identify as philistines or barbarians currently? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/44 "2012-05-12T03:13:39Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I used this term on this message board many years ago and it earned me my first (and only that I know of) warning from a Mod. > > I would say that as far as **The Straight Dope** is concerned, it is offensive. Just to be clear, in relation to other derogatory nomenclature for travelling folk I don’t think gypo is particularly bad. I wouldn’t call an actual Gypsy or Traveller a gypo because I try not to be a prick. However there are terms such as knacker and pikey that are more loaded, more offensive in the same context. I wouldn’t use those terms either to referring to Travellers. \*\* PookahMacPhellimey\*\* I could be wrong but I’m fairly sure some Irish travellers refer to themselves as Gypsies so it’s not quite the same as the term Eskimo. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/45 "2012-05-12T09:53:24Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Are gypsies even a race or an ethnicity? > > Would you be offended by term hobo or vagabond? I swear, this place needs a sticky regarding what ‘race’ means in English. Merriam-Webster: > **[Definition of RACE](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race)** > > any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry; also : the fact of dividing people, or of people being divided, into such groups : categorization by race… See the... Definition 3 > [@](#): > > 2.a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock > b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics Collins: [http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/race?utm\_source=searchbox&utm\_medium=widget&utm\_campaign=english](http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/race?utm_source=searchbox&utm_medium=widget&utm_campaign=english) > [@](#): > > 3.a group of animals or plants having common characteristics that distinguish them from other members of the same species, usually forming a geographically isolated group; subspecies > 4.a group of people sharing the same interests, characteristics, etc ⇒ the race of authors I’m pretty fed up of EVERY TIME race is mentioned some ignorant person coming in with “X is not a race”. Every bloody time. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/46 "2012-05-12T19:45:21Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I swear, this place needs a sticky regarding what ‘race’ means in English. > > Merriam-Webster: > [RACE Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race) > Definition 3 > Collins: > [http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/race?utm\_source=searchbox&utm\_medium=widget&utm\_campaign=english](http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/race?utm_source=searchbox&utm_medium=widget&utm_campaign=english) > I’m pretty fed up of EVERY TIME race is mentioned some ignorant person coming in with “X is not a race”. Every bloody time. You seem to be misunderstanding the question. As acknowledged in the Wikipedia article , the word ‘gypsy’ as commonly used in North America has absolutely bupkus to do with ethnicity, national origin, skin color, religion, or any other class of people. It’s anyone who travels from place to place and lives in a wagon, or camper, or other mobile dwelling. That being said, it’s still offensive to imply that anyone who chooses to live that way is a thief or a swindler. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/47 "2012-05-13T01:14:25Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I would find out how individuals of that ethnicity felt about the terms first. Are there any groups that self-identify as philistines or barbarians currently? Just to clarify – you’ve never personally used either of those words because you’re still in some sort of research phase? That strikes me as unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/48 "2012-05-13T04:33:59Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Just to clarify – you’ve never personally used either of those words because you’re still in some sort of research phase? That strikes me as unlikely. No, I’ve never personally used these words because I have a bachelors in history and know sufficiently enough about the Philistine and the Barbarian (as it was applied originally as lable by the Romans) cultures to consider the common language usage of the terms inappropriate descriptions (basically incorrect prejudiced stereotypes) of some rather interesting ethnic groups. Currently, the only person I have ever used either term with is one of my neo-pagan, aging hippie colleagues who self-identifies sometimes as a Barbarian to demonstrate his non-Greco-Roman, non-Judeo-Christian life philosopies. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/49 "2012-05-13T05:39:26Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > How do you feel about the terms “philistine” and “barbarian” (both of which have been applied to specific ethnicities in the past)? Okay, I give you Philistine, but can I have a cite supporting that Barbarian was used as an ethnic identifier, I think you are getting confused with Vandal/vandal ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/50 "2012-05-13T10:36:43Z")
I don’t think it’s fair to call it derogatory when it’s used by someone who has no idea of its origins. Words are given meaning by the people who speak them, and if a guy has no idea that a word is even supposed to apply to a particular group of people than it’s not derogatory _for him_. Let’s take this situation to its logical extreme; consider some far future society that has completely forgotten the origin of the term and even the existence of any group called “gypsies”. If they use the word “gyp” to mean fraud and have no idea it ever applied to some ethnic group, are they being derogatory towards people they don’t even know ever existed? > [@Jragon](#): > > But weren’t the Roma (or any band of people labeled gypsies) pretty much (mostly wrongly) known for either being whores, thieves, or thieving whores? At this point I don’t think so. If you asked the average American what they thought of upon hearing the word “Gypsy”, I think they’d answer with “an old lady putting a curse on someone”. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/51 "2012-05-13T12:22:58Z")
I think it’s important not to get into an imbroglio over what “derogatory” means. I think most people should be able to agree: (i) “Gyp” is etymologically derived from “Gypsy” in an obviously derogatory way (ii) Romani or anyone else identified with “gypsy” (by their choice or by other people’s choice) may legitimately be hurt by it if they’ve heard it used often against them. (iii) Most people may genuinely not know the etymology and would be shocked if they did. Now, what I take away from that is “If you say ‘gyp’, there’s nothing wrong with you, but now you know, you should probably avoid it.” I remember an amusing anecdote from someone who _was_ jewish, but had only ever heard the slur (that I’ve never heard) “Jew down” aloud, and didn’t realise it was the same word, and felt ridiculous when they found out. But some people’s logic seems to go like this: “‘Gyp’ is derogatory. Only bad people say derogatory things. But I genuinely didn’t mean any slur. Therefore it’s not derogatory after all. Therefore anyone who is offended is stupid, and I shall go on saying it, however much it hurts some people to the bone because I have AWESOME LOGIC POWA and they are whiny emotional crybabies.” That’s entirely understandable – almost everyone (including me, including most politically correct liberal types) makes that mistake of thinking. But please don’t. No, you _didn’t do anything wrong_. Really. You might have accidentally hurt someone, but you had no reason to know[1]. Or maybe you knew vaguely, but hadn’t realised there was a good reason to stop. Really, THAT’S OK. Just don’t use it an excuse to be wilfully blind in the FUTURE, even if it involves everyone (potential offendee and potential offendor alike) putting in a small amount of effort to understand. [1] Unlike, say, “N\*\*\*\*\*”, where anyone exposed to Western media really can’t plead ignorance that it’s offensive. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/52 "2012-05-13T13:08:17Z")
Ever since I found out that ‘gyp’ originated in a slur against Gypsies I have avoided using it, just as I wouldn’t use the term ‘jew’ as a verb. I think most people would avoid using it if they knew its origins, at least in America, since I don’t think most Americans have any negative views of Gypsies. If you asked most people who use the term,I bet most of them think it’s spelled ‘jip’ and do not realize there is any connection to Gypsies, as one of the posters here commented he used to think. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/53 "2012-05-13T13:15:48Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > This, to me, sounds an awful lot like “come on guys, I can use ‘cunt.’ There’s no chicks here, this is a men-only smoking lounge.” > > Ultimately I agree “gyp” is rather minor on the sliding scale of racially insensitive words, and I don’t agree with being **overly** -PC. But to argue that the fact it’s offensive doesn’t matter because the people it refers to are statistically insignificant in terms of population is a bit… wrong. Sorry, I didn’t mean to make the argument that it doesn’t matter in a perfect world. I should have been more clear that mattering isn’t the key thing with respect to how important it is to certain groups of people. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/54 "2012-05-13T14:43:15Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > The reason there aren’t many gypsies about, was that the Germans and their allies genocided 95% of them when you Americans were waiting out the second world war. Please don’t spit on their graves. This is factually wrong at least twice over; certainly the Holocaust did not kill 19 out of 20 Roma (19 out of 20 Roma didn’t even live in Europe) and much of the Holocaust happened after U.S. entry into the war. As to the word, it’s derogatory in origin and hurtful to Romani who hear it, so it should be avoided. You can’t blame someone if they didn’t know, as in fact most people don’t; frankly, I suspect most people in North America have absolutely no idea whatsoever who “Gypsies” are or even that they are a real ethnic group. If I met someone who was Romani I wouldn’t even know they were; how the hell can you even tell? I don’t even know what a Romani name sounds like. In Japan, incredibly racist words and depictions of black people are sometimes to be found, but Japanese often simply don’t know how offensive those things seem to black people. So you can’t say they’re being deliberately mean. But if a Japanese DID know, and was informed of the fact that tarbaby images and words like “nigger” were offensive to black people, but kept using them, that person would be a big asshole. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/55 "2012-05-13T17:24:10Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > Okay, I give you Philistine, but can I have a cite supporting that Barbarian was used as an ethnic identifier, I think you are getting confused with Vandal/vandal Vandal is probably a much better example of what I was going for, but I was looking at [this etymology](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=barbarian): > [@](#): > > barbarian > mid-14c. (adj.), from M.L. barbarinus (cf. [O.Fr](http://O.Fr). barbarin “ **Berber** , pagan, **Saracen** , barbarian”), from L. barbaria “foreign country,” from Gk. barbaros “foreign, strange, ignorant,” from PIE root \*barbar- echoic of unintelligible speech of foreigners (cf. Skt. barbara- “stammering,” also “non-Aryan”). Greek barbaroi (n.) meant “all that are not Greek,” but especially the Medes and Persians. Originally not entirely pejorative, its sense darkened after the Persian wars. The Romans (technically themselves barbaroi) took up the word and applied it to tribes or nations which had no Greek or Roman accomplishments. The noun is from late 14c., “person speaking a language different from one’s own,” also (c.1400) **“native of the Barbary coast;”** meaning “rude, wild person” is from 1610s. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/56 "2012-05-13T18:20:55Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I’m not so sure. I mean, sure, there’s no direct connection between a “Native Americans are Indians” level corruption of “Egyptian” and “to swindle.” But weren’t the Roma (or any band of people labeled gypsies) pretty much (mostly wrongly) known for either being whores, thieves, or thieving whores? Tramps and thieves, generally. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/57 "2012-05-14T13:11:26Z")
In reference to my OP, Carol Higgins Clark is a writer and words are her tools in trade. She certainly should know (or have learned) the origins of gyp before using it as a title. I didn’t mention that all her titles start with a different letter. Since she has already used J in Jinxed, I wonder if her “K” title will be Kiked.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/58 "2012-05-14T13:58:16Z")
I don’t know how commonly-known this is, but I gather it’s a reference to gypsies. As a kid, and until fairly recently, I didn’t know about that and so didn’t think of it as derogatory. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/59 "2012-05-14T15:07:00Z")
I think it was probably on this board that I learned the connection to gypsies. I’d always just heard the word spoken and thought it was “gipped.” It was never connected to a group of people in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502/60 "2012-05-14T21:01:55Z")
I didn’t know for many years that “gyp” was connected with gypsies. Having know for quite some time that it is, but being one who wouldn’t know a gypsy if one were to bite me in the ass, I can’t say that I find it particularly offensive even now. It doesn’t happen to be part of my working vocabulary, though, as I prefer “screw,” “cheat,” or “rip off,” so my personal risk of offending anyone is quite low. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gyp-a-derogatory-word/621502.md?page=4)