# Is Halal and Shechita legal form of Slaughter ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566 "2002-09-25T03:27:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/1 "2002-09-25T03:27:09Z")
"Halal (Islamic Slaughter) and Shechita (Jewish Slaughter) involves not stunning (the animal) either by percussion or electrical current. Their necks are exposed, and their carotid arteries and jugular veins cut with a sharp knife; they die by exsanguination. Or in simple words they are bled till all the blod flows out and the animal die. Is this legal ? What about the animal rights people ? (I assume it is legal because you keep hearing about Halal meat). So animal rights changes with the Religion of the person slaughtering it ? Is’nt that mixing religion with law ? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/2 "2002-09-25T04:00:51Z")
Yes, both methods are legal. There is no law (in most states, if not all) anyway requiring animals being slaughtered to be stunned first. Next question? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/3 "2002-09-25T05:36:43Z")
Zev - how many common US laws contravene Jewish law/custom? (how’s that for an opening?) ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/4 "2002-09-25T07:39:51Z")
Keep in mind that the blade has to be extremely sharp and clean (i.e., no nicks at all). It’s probably less painful than being hit with a hammer or shocked with electricity. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/5 "2002-09-25T08:26:25Z")
This [site](http://www.farmedanimalaction.co.uk/campaigns/ritualslaughter/) (probably not the most objective ever…) says there are laws, but they are not broken by ritual slaughter, if… > [@](#): > > _UK law states that ‘No person shall slaughter any animal by a religious method, or cause or permit any animal to be slaughtered, elsewhere than in a slaughterhouse unless the slaughter is carried out in the presence of an authorised person’ (The Welfare of Animals [Slaughter or Killing] Regulations 1995)…_ ---
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/6 "2002-09-25T12:08:01Z")
But Muslim families routinely slaughter by themselves during their religious celebration of ID. I heard this from a Muslim friend. Whether the knife is sharp or not is not the point, the animal bleeds to death and never stunned. Thats cruelty to animals. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/7 "2002-09-25T14:03:24Z")
On the contrary, the purpose of the ritual Jewish slaughter (can’t speak to Islamic practice) is to avoid unneccessary pain to the animal. For this reason the blade must be razor-sharp, producing the kind of surgical cut that causes the least pain and quickest death. Any nick in the blade, which may cause the flesh to painfully tear, or any unncessary delay in the slaughter, renders the meat unfit to eat. The _shochet_, the person doing the slaughter, must be a pious person, fully aware of the relevant laws. The collection of laws known as _Tzar Baalei Chayim_ speak to the treatment of, and forbid cruelty to, animals. SO far as I am aware, Judaism is the only major religion to propound specific rules for the benefit of animals. Hunting for sport is strictly forbidden, for example. Animals must be permitted to rest on the Sabbath, and you may not muzzle an ox that treads the grain, because of the cruelty of making the animal work so close to food he cannot eat. Nor may you yolk an ox an a mule together, out of concern for the greater strain placed on the weaker animal. In fact, the Talumud mandates that a person must feed his animals before he feeds himself. That said, the Torah claims that God gave man dominion over the Earth and the animals thereon. For this reason, legitimate use of animals is permitted. Animal flesh, if properly and humanely taken, may be eaten, and animal products used in other ways. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/8 "2002-09-25T14:10:50Z")
If you want to debate whether it’s cruel, andy\_fl, there’s always great debates. Let’s see if it’s legal. I’ll go and look. Spreading it around a little culturally, I’ve eaten meat killed this way at Orthodox Easter and anytime in Italian households. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/9 "2002-09-25T14:47:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aro \* > \*\*This [site](http://www.farmedanimalaction.co.uk/campaigns/ritualslaughter/) (probably not the most objective ever…) says there are laws, but they are not broken by ritual slaughter, if… > > \*\* You’re getting into stickier territory here, as I assume this rule relates to ritual sacrifice (i.e., Santeria, Judaism in the Temple days, etc.) rather than food preparation. Of course, that line gets fuzzier the more you think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/10 "2002-09-25T15:05:43Z")
The first line of the link says > [@](#): > > Around 750 million farmed animals are killed annually within the UK for food. Most are stunned prior to being killed. However, a certain percentage are killed by religious (ritual) methods. I think the site is about food prep. methods, albeit from the perspective of people from the “this is cruelty to animals” persuasion. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/11 "2002-09-25T15:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andy\_fl \* > But Muslim families routinely slaughter by themselves during their religious celebration of ID. I heard this from a Muslim friend. el-'Eid, simply meaning ‘festival’, often used simply to refer to the end of Ramadan 'Eid el-Fitr. Often Muslims do the slaughter themselves, in the community. It is supposed to be done by someone skilled, I may add. > [@](#): > > Whether the knife is sharp or not is not the point, the animal bleeds to death and never stunned. Thats cruelty to animals. Your opinion. Death is death. A deep clean cut is less painful than a shallow ragged one, to be sure, and it does strike me as likely less painful than many mass slaughter means. Certainly better end then being pulled down by a pack of predators and eaten while still living. But hey, the natural world is a nasty place. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/12 "2002-09-25T15:37:08Z")
I’ve been searching for US law without real success. The relevant act is evidently the _Humane Handling and Slaughter Enforcement Act_ (or something like it), but I can’t locate it, probably due to cultural ignorance. A couple of nonetheless interesting links. The practices obviously are legal, or regarded as so. The USDA has pages which talk of export requirements for halal and kosher products in a way that suggests that they don’t think that this is an issue: see [here](http://ffas.usda.gov/dlp2/circular/1998/98-10LP/halal.pdf) and [here](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OFO/export/israel.htm). They also display the following, which I _think_ is a German law on the issue. It states pretty clearly that there _are_ religious-based exceptions to requirements to stun, stated as such, at least in some places: > [@](#): > > (1) Warm-blooded animals may be slaughtered only if stunned before exsanguination. > > (2) By way of derogation from paragraph (1), no stunning shall be required if: > > 1. it is impossible under the circumstances in the case of an emergency slaughter; > > 2. the competent authority have granted an exemption for slaughter without stunning (ritual slaughter); this exemption may be granted only where necessary to meet the requirements of members of religious communities in the territory covered by this Act whose mandatory rules require ritual slaughter and prohibit consumption of meat of animals not slaughtered in this way;[[here](http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/legislat/awagertrn.htm)] A link to what seems to be [someone’s thesis](http://www.stanford.edu/~c0urtney/THEPEO~2.DOC) on the matter: > [@](#): > > In each case, the religious practice wins, and the animals’ consideration (and consistency of argument) takes a back seat. _[A shorter excerpt than would be ideal, it’s worth reading the paragraphs preceding this quote]_ On a lighter note, I can’t resist pointing you to a delightful error note on [this page](http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ac/publications.html#awa) > [@](#): > > (Please Note: Table 3 has an error. It states that Massachusetts reported 260,363 Guinea Pigs. The correct number is 11,363. We apologize for this error) Three rosettes for that. ---
**Author:** ![PosterChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e274bd/32.png) [@PosterChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PosterChild)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/13 "2002-09-25T16:07:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andy\_fl \* > **Or in simple words they are bled till all the blod flows out and the animal die.** Do you feel that bleeding to death is a painful way to go? AFAIK, it’s not. It’s probably one of the more peaceful ways to go- the animal essentially falls asleep and never wakes up. At least judging by the effects of blood loss on humans. > [@](#): > > **not stunning (the animal) either by percussion or electrical current.** At least the religious methods are very strict about the precision of the method. I’ll try to find cites, but I’m pretty sure the “stunning” methods used in non-religious method slaughter houses aren’t well regulated and are not necessarily effective. McDonald’s recently began to implement requirements for better slaughter procedures for its suppliers (because of animal rights advocates) because of the pain that was routinely inflicted by the killing process. PC ---
**Author:** ![Alereon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alereon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alereon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/14 "2002-09-25T16:34:00Z")
IANASlaughterer, but I’ve heard that stunning animals (at least large ones such as cows) isn’t remarkably effective at reducing their pain. It just makes them drop to the floor, unable to fight back as they bleed to death, not necessarily rendering them unconscious. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/15 "2002-09-25T16:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by happyheathen \* > \*\*Zev - > > how many common US laws contravene Jewish law/custom? > > (how’s that for an opening?) \*\* Not many, to my knowledge. Of course, some things that are _permitted_ in Judaism, are forbidden by common law. Slavery is one example. In such cases, the Talmudic principle of _dina d’malchusa dina_ takes over and states that the law of the land is Jewish law as well. Thus, Jews in the U.S. are forbidden to own slaves. Was there a specific law you were wondering about, **happyheathen**? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/16 "2002-09-25T17:29:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\* > > Your opinion. Death is death. A deep clean cut is less painful than a shallow ragged one, to be sure, and it does strike me as likely less painful than many mass slaughter means. > \*\* My Opinion, but a very educated one. Please refer to : Author(s): Gregory, Neville ; Shaw, Frank Title: Penetrating Captive Bolt Stunning and Exsanguination of Cattle in Abattoirs Source: Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science 3, no. 3 (2000): 215-230 ISSN: 1088-8705 Quote from the article - “Humane slaughter requires that an animal immediately becomes unconscious and does not regain consciousness.” Its very well established that stunning an animal before slaughter is the humane way to do it. (If you need more cites from published literature, let me know). My question is why are Jews and Muslims not required to follow the law in this case? Is’nt this religion and state getting mixed up ? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/17 "2002-09-25T17:52:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andy\_fl \* > My Opinion, but a very educated one. Please refer to : > > Author(s): Gregory, Neville ; Shaw, Frank > Title: Penetrating Captive Bolt Stunning and Exsanguination of Cattle in Abattoirs > Source: Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science 3, no. 3 (2000): 215-230 > ISSN: 1088-8705 Never heard of the journal. Care to give some insight on it? > [@](#): > > Quote from the article - “Humane slaughter requires that an animal immediately becomes unconscious and does not regain consciousness.” Well, that strikes me as an assertion. What defines “humane slaughter,” what are the standards involved? ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/18 "2002-09-25T18:16:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\* > Was there a specific law you were wondering about, **happyheathen**? > \*\* I was thinking specifically of the requirement to bury the dead in coffins within vaults. It is my understanding that this contravenes custom, and possibly Talmudic law. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/19 "2002-09-25T18:56:55Z")
Andy\_fl: You cannot establish, as a matter of fact, that a particular practice is definitively “humane”, since there are no objective standards for “humane”. I could as lief claim that _no_ animal slaughter is humane, since the very idea of eating the flesh of another once-living creature is inhumane - and I could provide plenty of published cites for this view. So far as I am concerned, a humane practice begins and ends with ensuring that a creature capable of feeling pain is not subjected to needless pain, consistent with other reasonable strictures imposed by a particular situation. You may disagree, but without an objective standard for “humane”, we will merely be recitiing our opinions to each other. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566/20 "2002-09-25T19:20:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*Andy\_fl: > > You cannot establish, as a matter of fact, that a particular practice is definitively “humane”, since there are no objective standards for “humane”. > > - Rick \*\* Fair Enough. But how can lawmakers view Muslims, Jews and Christians separately while making a law? How can a lawmaker say that it is illegal for a Christian to slaughter an animal without stunning but it is alright for a Jew to do so ? Morality is also subjective. So if you go by your logic, should there be a separate law for Muslims be allowed them to do polygamy ? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-halal-and-shechita-legal-form-of-slaughter/129566.md?page=2)