# Is Hamas ready to give peace a chance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900 "2004-12-03T15:29:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/1 "2004-12-03T15:29:38Z")
The Globe and Mail is running this [AP story](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20041203.wmide1203/BNStory/International/). It indicates that Hamas is > [@](#): > > ready to accept the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as well as a long-term truce with Israel. The only other mention of this story that I could was in the Israeli paper [Haaretz](http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/507141.html). If this is true, it could be the best news that the middle east peace process has seen since Israel and Egypt signed their treaty. How much would Hamas’ willingness for a cease fire improve the peace process? Or is this just playing a part in the Palestinian election? Either way, I hope that Israel responds to this in a positive manner. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/2 "2004-12-03T15:51:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Is Hamas ready to give peace a chance? Not unless the Devil can make popscicles in his backyard, it ain’t. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/3 "2004-12-03T16:22:49Z")
Arafat’s death and [Sharon’s parliamentary crisis](http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1364304,00.html) herald an enormous opportunity for progress right now. [Hamas’s declaration](http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1366019,00.html) appears to be an attempt to nudge Sharon into a coalition with _Labour_ (who’dathunkit?!) to finalise the withdrawal from Gaza and from there push for the closure of the settlements in the West Bank. It is pretty clear to the world what a ‘final’ settlement looks like: autonomy for Gaza and the West Bank, with viable water/arable resources and **no settlements** , but with **no** right of return to Israel itself and a secure border (via a 30ft concrete wall if necessary). If Hamas are making promising noises about accepting this, the final settlement could come about in years rather than decades. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/4 "2004-12-03T16:31:10Z")
Sorry, that must’ve been a little confusing, using “settlement” in two different contexts. To paraphrase, removing the recently-built fortified towns in the West Bank would seem to be a prerequisite for long term peace and a final…err…solution? (Ack! That’s even worse!) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/5 "2004-12-03T16:33:02Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Not unless the Devil can make popscicles in his backyard, it ain’t. :dubious: They used to say similar things about the IRA, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/6 "2004-12-03T16:36:43Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > They used to say similar things about the IRA, too. Not the same thing. Apples & Orangemen. 😃 People in the Middle East who talk peace with Israel have a nasty tendency to get a cap popped into them by their own best pals. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/7 "2004-12-03T16:41:48Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > People in the Middle East who talk peace with Israel have a nasty tendency to get a cap popped into them by their own best pals. True enough, but change has to start somewhere. Where would we be if people always took the path of least resistance? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/8 "2004-12-03T16:42:12Z")
> [@](#): > > People in the Middle East who talk peace with Israel have a nasty tendency to get a cap popped into them by their own best pals. Note that if you substitute the word ‘Palestine’ for ‘Israel’, you describe the fate of Yitzak Rabin. ---
**Author:** ![kezami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eb8c5e/32.png) [@kezami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kezami)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/9 "2004-12-03T17:38:55Z")
Can Hamas reel in the extremists in its organization? Not a chance. Israel wants official recognition of its statehood and a real peace treaty, not a renegotiable ceasefire. Won’t happen. Nope, nada, not until a flying pig is spotted. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/10 "2004-12-03T17:55:33Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > True enough, but change has to start somewhere. Where would we be if people always took the path of least resistance? Right where we are now. Then again, would **you** like to go first…? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/11 "2004-12-03T17:56:45Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Note that if you substitute the word ‘Palestine’ for ‘Israel’, you describe the fate of Yitzak Rabin. I’ll buy that. Changes not a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/12 "2004-12-03T17:57:51Z")
> [@kezami](#): > > Can Hamas reel in the extremists in its organization? Not a chance. > > Israel wants official recognition of its statehood and a real peace treaty, not a renegotiable ceasefire. Won’t happen. > > Nope, nada, not until a flying pig is spotted. Sorry, flying pigs are a dealbreaker. Not kosher. ;j ---
**Author:** ![The\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Truth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/13 "2004-12-03T18:00:00Z")
Nope, Hamas does not desire peace, not a chance. Their own charter is proof of this. Hellfire missiles is how one should negotiate with savages such as Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![kezami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eb8c5e/32.png) [@kezami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kezami)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/14 "2004-12-03T18:02:38Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Sorry, flying pigs are a dealbreaker. Not kosher. ;j How about a flying matzah ball? ---
**Author:** ![EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilHamsterOnCrack)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/15 "2004-12-03T19:51:31Z")
> [@The Truth](#): > > Nope, Hamas does not desire peace, not a chance. Their own charter is proof of this. > > Hellfire missiles is how one should negotiate with savages such as Hamas. This is GD, so I think I’ll express my disapproval with that statement. If there’s no way innocents would be harmed, I think I’d agree with you, but a hellfire missile into a crowded apartment building to kill 3 people inside it isn’t how you negotiate with a group of people who’ve always been told that Israel is their enemy. That just creates more Hamas-ites. Maybe something a bit more tactical than a missile? P.S. I’m Israeli. ---
**Author:** ![Iridium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@Iridium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iridium)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/16 "2004-12-03T20:17:11Z")
> [@The Truth](#): > > Nope, Hamas does not desire peace, not a chance. Their own charter is proof of this. Have you ever read Likud’s platform? From [http://www.knesset.gov.il/elections/knesset15/elikud\_m.htm:](http://www.knesset.gov.il/elections/knesset15/elikud_m.htm:) \*The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs.\* Parties will say all sorts of things to win domestic points, but at some point they have to be pragmatic and negotiate an agreement that is acceptable to both sides. This requires ideological concessions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Truth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/17 "2004-12-03T20:54:36Z")
> [@EvilHamsterOnCrack](#): > > This is GD, so I think I’ll express my disapproval with that statement. If there’s no way innocents would be harmed, I think I’d agree with you, but a hellfire missile into a crowded apartment building to kill 3 people inside it isn’t how you negotiate with a group of people who’ve always been told that Israel is their enemy. That just creates more Hamas-ites. Maybe something a bit more tactical than a missile? > > P.S. I’m Israeli. I didn’t mention anything about apartment buildings or civilians. Each situation is different, and it depends who the target is, IMO. The evil sheik yassin, which the IDF targeted was an example of a highly successful liquidation. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/18 "2004-12-03T22:12:49Z")
I’m of two minds on the actual issue at hand, so I’ll refrain from comment. But the publicity is now far from being only two newspapers. **All** the major israeli news portals I checked (www.ynet.co.il for _Yedioth Aharonot_; www.nrg.co.il for _Maariv_ and www.msn.co.il for MSN-Israel) are carrying the story as well. All Hebrew-only, off course, but just FYI Dani ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/19 "2004-12-03T22:19:27Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > I’m of two minds on the actual issue at hand, so I’ll refrain from comment. Please do share your opinions. As somebody who lives in Israel, your input would be valued in this thread. And thanks for those sites - I guess I need to brush up on my hebrew. ---
**Author:** ![Paladud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Paladud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paladud)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900/20 "2004-12-03T23:36:23Z")
Suppose I say that I will vote for Lyndon LaRouche in 2008. This runs contrary to my beliefs on just about every level; there’s very little reason to trust this statement. Likewise with Hamas. I’ll believe it when I see it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hamas-ready-to-give-peace-a-chance/277900.md?page=2)